ProSurf 3 vs Prolines 7

Discussion in 'Software' started by Tom_McGuinness, Sep 15, 2003.

  1. Tom_McGuinness
    Joined: Sep 2003
    Posts: 28
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    Location: California

    Tom_McGuinness Junior Member

    I'm a newbie to computer aided hull design and am down to chosing between Prosurf 3 by New Wave Systems, and Prolines 7 by Vacanti.

    The project I'm working on is a small boat, approx 17' LOA x 30" beam, open hull for installation of our proprietary tailboat propulsion system (www.tailboats.com). The weight distribution and handling characteristics for this boat necessitate a different hull design than the typical canoe/kayak. My starting point will probably be a sailboat hullform with daggerboard type keel.

    The Prosurf site has more technical info than the Prolines site, but much of that information is beyond my comprehension..and the Prolines site is comparatively sparse on technical info.

    I'd be grateful for any guidance anyone may have as to the advantages/disadvantages of one software package vs the other for a relative newbie like me on the stated project. Ease of use is a prime concern.

    Thank you for your help.

    Best regards,

    Tom McGuinness
     
  2. CGN
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: MX

    CGN Senior Member

    Hi i use prosurf Basic, and i try prolines Basic before, i like in prolines the presentation of all the data and graphics, Curve of areas and stability and hidrostatics, on general its really easy to get used to it, and have some other software to support more advanced design like design of keels,

    the details that i don't like of prolines is that there is no way to export your model in a 3d format, but this is only my point of view i do like to be able to model my boat in prolines and then take that model an export it to any 3d cad software (i'll be generic) so i can finish the boat 3d model on it. some people do some people don't, this is talking about PROLINES98 Basic, the full version you are able to save in a great variety of formats.

    But, i do own a 3d cad modeler software so i don't really wanted to expend that much money for a PROLINES98 Pro version becouse i found Prosurf that meet my need for a software with amid range price or low cost if you want, that can do as Prolines but it gives me the chance to transfer my model from Prosurf to my 3d cad modeler,

    The interface of prosurf its very clean and easy to work with it dosen't have the great presentation of all the technical data of your hull, but performs the same basic calculations as PROLINES
    i really not quite sure how different are the softwares in the calculation results, becouse again i use other software to finalize my calculations, and Tons of spreadsheet (can't live with out them).

    so this will be my list of good and bad

    Prosurf Basic

    software stability
    plate development.
    easy to use and understand interface
    Able to export to many formats
    Basic Stability, hydrostatics and some resistance methods integrated.

    not bad just i feel like it will help if:
    The presentation of results of stability, hydrostatics and curve of areas where available.

    Prolines Basic
    software stability
    easy to use and understand interface
    Basic Stability, hydrostatics and some resistance methods integrated.
    the graphs of all this calculations are just somethig to fell for it it may not represent much to many people but when you get to the point of understand every graph what its saying in only looking at it, having a presentation of this graphs like prolines its really helpful in the whole hullform shaping and fairing process.

    i will like to see:
    3d export available.
    the graphics needs a bit, they seems way too jagged. (this is just my point of view).
    the rendering window is useless.
    some comamands the will help the modeling.

    but if you want to expend the money for the proversion on any of this softwares, just make a list of your needs, like:

    Calcualtions?
    fairing, lofting?
    rendering?
    send to a 5axis tooling machine to create full size model?
    How much, and how far i'm going with this?

    you won't have any trouble with this softwares they are esay to use and undesrstand, and one of the most important step is download the demos and work with them, thast really important.

    Good luck and let us know what you decided
     
  3. CGN
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: MX

    CGN Senior Member

    The presentation of results of stability, hydrostatics and curve of areas where available.

    i meant graphics available to be seen.

    Prosurf it does present all the information on txt formats and on screen.
     
  4. Tom_McGuinness
    Joined: Sep 2003
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    Location: California

    Tom_McGuinness Junior Member

    Thank you!!

    Dear CGN,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to explain the differences between Prosurf and Prolines in detail.

    I'll probably get the "pro" version of whichever version I decide upon, as the 3D export for 5-axis CNC machining is very important.

    One Naval Architect I was talking with indicated that exporting the hullform to a 3D CAD format suitable for CNC coding might require a subsequent...and time consuming... fairing step. It's been my impression that once the 3D model is created in Prosurf or Prolines, and, say IGES file exported, that no subsequent fairing operation is required....and that the CNC g-code can be generated directy from the model.

    Is the 3D CAD file exported from Prolines/Prosurf ready for CNC coding?

    Again, thank you for your help.

    Best regards,

    Tom
     
  5. CGN
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    Location: MX

    CGN Senior Member

    Yes, all the fairing is in your hull model software thats all the fairing that you have to do, the only problen can be translation problem between softwares from CAD to CAM, useless programers that don't quite know what to do (happens more than often), and tolerance settings that may afect the process of tooling (Excuse my english), but again the only way to resolve and or minimize this situation in a real world are:

    that you have an aplication that handles CAD/CAM, VX, UNigraphics etc..., this means that you are modeling inside the same software that its going to carry on with the code so there is no transaltion issues.

    That you work with some one that know and tells you what he is expecting to be provided from you, its very easy to say give me this file in this format and thats it, but what happens if a software works better with iges, or step, or stl?.

    So be confident that any of this software will be able to create a file that will be capable to be converted or coded for CNC.

    and that your model don't need to be faired again, just take your time and do the best fairing surface.

    there is a very good article related to cam/cad its on this adress:

    http://www.cadalyst.com/features/0703cadcam/
    the name is

    "extend CAD to CAM"

    Good luck
     
  6. Tom_McGuinness
    Joined: Sep 2003
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    Location: California

    Tom_McGuinness Junior Member

    CAD-CAM

    Dar CGN,

    Thank you very much for the clarification.

    I do quite a bit of CNC programming & machining myself and understand some of the CAD/CAM conversion issues. For 21/2 D programming, you can either import the part geometry, say, via a DXF file, or alternatively recreate the geometry from scratch in the CAM software which semi-automatically generates the G-code. Provided I've got a fully dimensioned CAD drawing, I can usually recreate the geometry and generate the G-code within 10 minutes or so. But I can see where the subtly shaped geometry produced by a hull design program could be difficult to reproduce from scratch and therefore the process more dependent on importing a "clean" 3D file. And I know that many CAD packages can have "issues" when converting to the standard interchange file formats....my CAD software, for example. (g)

    In view of your excellent comments, I will make sure to contact marine tooling manufacturers to confirm their preferred 3D file formats as well as ask if they are aware of any issues with files produced by Prosurf or Prolines....which may affect my decision on which hull design packadge to buy.

    Best regards,

    Tom
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Tom

    You may wish to consider the lowest cost version of Maxsurf, it has full hydrostatics and includes full IGES NURBS surface export. You can download a demo from our website http://www.formsys.com, but please feel free to contact me if you have any questions about price or capabilities.
     

  8. Andrew Mason
    Joined: Mar 2003
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    Location: Perth, Western Australia

    Andrew Mason Senior Member

    Tom

    I'll try again.

    You may wish to consider the lowest cost version of Maxsurf, it has full hydrostatics and includes full IGES NURBS surface export. You can download a demo from our website http://www.formsys.com, but please feel free to contact me at Andym@formsys.com if you have any questions about price or capabilities.
     
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