Seeking advice for repair to my Wilson Flyer

I have an old Wilson Flyer which is very heavy and is almost certainly waterlogged under the deck. I would like to rectify the problem. Can anyone advise please?

There is a small inspection port cut by a previous owner and under this the foam has been cut away. The resulting "void" is full of water which if removed simply fills up again from the surrounding waterlogged foam. I think the hull comprises several "sealed" foam filled compartments. I thought of cutting the deck floor out, removing the foam, and then replacing the foam with water tight plastic bottles and then putting the deck back in. Is this a crazy approach? Will this compromise the boat's strength and rigidity too much?

Currently the boat is fitted with a 50HP Mariner output but is quite sluggish and drinks fuel. I'm hoping that rectifying the foam problem will help a lot, and also offer some boyancy should it be needed. I wonder how boyant the boat currently really is. I'm new to this sort of repair on boats so if my suggestions are rediculous please tell me - I won't be offended but very pleased for any feedback and advice. Many thanks, Alan

 

You have to get 100% of the water logged foam out of there and then let everything dry so you can make a decision if the hull is worth saving. If it is you can replace with rigid, closed cell stryofoam which does not absorb water.

 

Pictures would be helpful, but yep, the bad news is the foam has to come out. Some say you can dry it, but my experience is (depending on foam type) it can take years for all the moisture to come out. This means the most economical method is to open up the deck cap/liner or remove it. This exposes the foam which can be hacked out with a variety of tools, my favorite that does the least amount of local damage is a hand saw. Yes sir, that's right and plain old carpenter's hand saw. Remove big hunks at first then fine tune the foam whittling with putty knives, scrapers, hack saw blades, even a steak knife works, as the foam is really easy to cut.

I've remove foam from powerboats that held several hundred pounds of water and fuel. In fact, so much moisture and fuel in one boat, that the 40 HP outboard couldn't get it up on plane any more, which is why the client brought it over, he thought the engine was hurt!

Post some pictures and we'll have look see . . .

 

The Wilson is a very robust and workmanlike dory ,made a few miles down the road from here on the South coast,beloved by local fishermen ,they use them for potting ,netting etc, yours has a fifty on it so I imagine it's a 17ft.These were supplied in any configuration ,from bare hull moulding to finished boat ,so the position of the floor bearers will depend on whoever glassed them in .PAR is right the foam has to come out. Firstly clean the floor ,and using your eyes, ears a rubber hammer ,and even perhaps a stud detector ,draw a grid of the matrix under the floor with a permanant marker. It should look like an egg crate ,and you will need to cut a hole in each void ,large enough to cut the foam out. The floor on this is probably 12mm wpb. As long as you leave the perimeter of the floor intact this will not weaken your hull ,and the deck moulding with the motor well will keep it in shape ,like the lid on a biscuit tin . Do make sure the hull is adequately supported though whilst you work . A self draining floor on a 17 is unlikely as this hull is quite narrow so the knee to gunwale measurement takes priority ,thus the voids are not very deep ,but take care cutting near the cathedral tunnel's "apex" [it's less interesting without him] as the floor here probably rests on the hull .I would suggest that the spaces outboard of this point are too small to have been foamed. If you cut rectangular holes alongside the bearers you can screw noggins in sideways to support the new patches in the floor, preferably laid on a wet fibreglass mat.This is a good opportunity to replace the foam with a closed cell foam ,but bottles are probably better than nothing. Lastly scurf off the floor and remake with a couple of layers of csm ,there is a recent post on here which may give you some good ideas for a non slip finish.

 

Many thanks to Anthony, PAR and Razorinc. This is really helpful information. I guessed I would have to remove the foam but was rather hoping to get away with an easier solution! I'll post some photo's later, but not sure if this will help too much. I might be able to take a few photos through the inspection hatch near the stern.

Actually the boat is only 14 foot, so I was very surprised indeed that with the 50HP engine it takes some effort getting the boat on the plane. I have to say the performance isn't impressive, and running time with a 20L tank is about 2-3 hours only and I'm not talking flat out! My previous boat was a 15 foot Bonwitco with a 25HP engine and it was much faster and more economical too.

I guess I may now be faced with the question "is it going to be worth all the hard work and money to repair the boat?" It's a lovely looking boat and it's nice and stable so I'll need to give this some serious thought.

 

Wilson Flyer 14 foot with waterlogged foam fill in hull

Please see attached a few photos as suggested.

 

14ft or 17ft same principles apply , hull is the same shape ,just smaller ,A friend of mine works a 17 ,with a 50 Mariner and that goes well full of gear, so your boat should really fly.

 

Thanks Anthony. My line of thinking now is:-
Cut out the foam as advised, but then attempt to put drain holes through from compartment to compartment along the length of the boat, ending in the compartment at the stern, but then open a drain from this compartment to the back of the boat to allow draining after the boat has been recovered onto the trailer. After I have put boyancy back in each compartment (still thinking of sealed plastic bottles) this should then allow draining of any excess water taken into the hull during each trip out. Obviously I would include a drain plug in the stern - just need to remember to put it in each time I launch! My other line of thought is when cutting out the floor to cut 18 inch square areas out and to make up marine ply hatch covers which would enable me to drop a bilge pump down whilst out if need be. I would of course need to ensure that the boyancy was well secured. The boat has small cabin so I would need to do the same in there, and thats also where the keel is deepest so this might contain a significant percentage of the total water volume trapped in the hull.

Any thoughts on this? Thanks again for all the advise - it's much appreciated!

 

Yes the drillings are important, water always seems to find its way in .Just note that the area outside the turn of the tunnels will only drain aft ,whereas the rest can drain ito the centre and then aft along the bilge. I would have thought that 18 inch holes and hatches were a little on the large size ,but that is your choice. I still think you would be better off resealing the floor having drilled the lands, much simpler ,and you only need resin bonded ply if you overcoat with csm.

 

Nigrina, drill a hole in the bottom of the hull, just off the centerline (a few inches) and just before the transom (4 or 5 inches). Make this hole about an inch in diameter and use a hole saw to cut it. Save the piece you remove, you'll reinstall it later. Then jack up the front of the boat with the trailer jack, until it's maxed out.

With luck, much of the water you have trapped between the hull shell and the liner will drain aft and out this hole. This assumes you have weeps (probably not) in the compartmentalized areas between the liner and hull shell. It also assumes there's a fair bit of rotten stringers and supports down there and this will let water pass from one compartment to the next.

After a week with the boat's nose in the air, plug the hole. You'll probably be several hundred pounds lighter.

Personally, I'd just strip the boat of everything screwed down and pull the deck cap. It's likely the stringers and sole supports are shot, the transom too, so you'll have plenty to cuss about and lots to fix.

 

Thanks again everyone for the advice.

PAR - can you explain what you mean by " stripping everything screwed down and pull the deck cap?" Do you mean strip all excess weight? Sorry to be thick, but I'm not used to your terminology. Actually I'm going to see my cousin in May - lives in Tampa and has a boat not disimilar to mine - just a bit bigger (and in much better condition!). I guess Tampa isn't that far from you? I'm looking forward to doing some fishing. It's quite different over your side of the pond! Bigger fish and more of them.

 

Tampa is a couple of hours most days, though I've made it in an hour and a half more then once.

Your boat is probably two, possably three pieces of 'glass. Most typically you'll have a deck cap/liner that forms the decks and the bases for all the interior furniture (seats, engine boxes, lockers, etc.). This is bonded to the hull shell and the joint is masked by an aluminum extruded rub rail, often with a plastic or rubber insert in the middle (which hides the mounting screws/bolts). Sometimes the deck cap and the interior liner are separate items, but the same things are true, they are attached the to hull shell. The hull shell is just as the name implies, the exterior of the hull proper, the part that bashes it way through the water. It's the part that's usually pointy on the front and has the stringers, sole supports and sole bonded to it.

In order to pull the deck cap/liner from the hull shell, you have to remove everything that might hang up this attempt. Each boat is different, but an experienced person can take a look and tell you to remove this and that and she'll come off.

Pulling the deck cap isn't difficult, but can be daunting, for the novice or backyard builder. It helps to have the tools, a gantry or lift, a dry, safe place to work, etc. With the deck cap off the boat, all will be revealed, the transom, stringers, sole supports, probably some wiring and plumbing too, as well as the moisture/fuel soaked foam.

 

PAR a Wilson 14 isn't built like that ,they are a small volume production built in a workshop behind a residential bungalow ,no production line just a couple of guys with brushes and rollers. The quality is good but the methods are simple ,the moulded hull shell has floor supports bonded in with strips of mat ,the floor ,typically 12mm wpb is then screwed down to the supports and strip bonded to the hull the whole lot is then covered with a couple of layers of csm. The upper deck ring has a flange ,as does the hull ,and these two parts are bonded together. You cannot remove this complete floor without destroying the hull.I would normally defer to your superior knowledge ,but in this instance ,having watched these things being made ,and having owned several larger models ,two in the family ,at the moment I think I know them fairly well.

 

Good catch Anthony, I was assuming a production build, my bad.

This said, it still sounds like the sole needs to come out (as you mentioned previously).