Proboat Design Comp 2 Results

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Mat-C, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. yipster
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    yipster designer

    thanks, shows the hull's pointynes and will go to 400% zoom in a minute
    perhaps becouse i favor multihulls i like your cats better
     
  2. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Thanks, then You should probably look at all spectrum here :)
     
  3. keysdisease
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    keysdisease Senior Member

    Congratulations

    Congratulations Alik, nicely done.

    Steve
     
  4. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Well done Alik!:D A thoroughly well-conceived and executed design... just as we would expect.

    I know for a fact that there was at least one multihull offered as an entry... and whilst it was not originally conceived with the design comp in mind, it certainly met all the requirements.

    No, it was not mine;)
    Indeed mine was a development of an idea that I've been tossing around on these boards for a few years now... and is probably closer to being 'outside the box'. The displacement monomaran, as I have termed it, met all the design constraints and far exceeded the 2 gph consumption constraint.
    Having said that, I entered it in the full knowledge that it was unlikely to win - you can make your own assesment based on the attached pics and info....
     

    Attached Files:

  5. daiquiri
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Very interesting concept, Will, I really like it.
    Looks like the idea of a slender displacement core hull with dynamically-lifting aft volume is gaining a momentum here. A box-keel on steroids.
    But it just couldn't stand a chance on a PB contest, which is (now we know) a rather conservative one. :eek:
    I think you could partecipate at the italian SEATEC Design Award with this design. They are much more oriented towards new forms and shapes. You'll have to work more on the deck form, imho. You'll need something softer and smoother (still imho). Italians are rather picky when it comes to the exterior styling of stuff that sits above water surface. ;)
    Cheers!
     
  6. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Well... I can be honest and tell you that I was a little rushed to finish it in time, so the screen isn't quite how I would have chosen to do it, had I had the time to finish it properly....
    And thanks... I'll give the Seatek award a look....
     
  7. Mat-C
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    Mat-C Senior Member

    Now, that's more like it! Really like that Will... hopefully there's a few more like it that they'll publish next issue....

    Let me also congratulate Alik - I really liked your design - in fact I quite liked all three of the winners. And as I saiud before, my comments weren't meant as criticism of any of the 3 winning entries, I was just a little disspointed that there wasn't anything more evolutuionary offered. Again, I guess that was as much to do with the competition rules and the judging as anything else....
     
  8. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Yes, there are no technical requirements there and seems like a competition of stylists, not designers/engineers. I did few sketches about month ago and hopefully will have time to make it in 3D - will see what creative thinking is ;)
     
  9. yipster
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    yipster designer

    "will see what creative thinking is"
    looking fwd, but dont discourage us all meastro
    it was a pleasure seeing your blog and scetches
    and thx for showing your monomaran Will
     
  10. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Will, have You checked what the resistane of that monomaran will be?
    One day we will model test something like this...
     
  11. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Lost in this discussion of the rules and winning entries is the requirement for fuel efficiency at specific speed and load plus accommodation. Where would you go to buy a boat on today's market that meets these requirements? There may be a couple of obscure ones somewhere but they are not to be found in any major manufacturer's lineup.

    It seems to me that the comments are about the near conventional styling of the winners and not performance. Will's entry is surely unconventional but he did not have time to flesh it out enough for the judges. Actually Will and I plus a few others have been looking at this concept for several years although our approaches have been, as usual, somewhat different.

    I am now building a test model of the box keel or glider to run against a more conventional model that I towed some years ago. The models will be, as near as possible, built to the same offsets except for the keel and will be weighted to the same displacement. This is low tech comparison testing for my own interest but may shed a little light on the subject.
     
  12. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    I would say 'nonconventional' is not criteria of success. Sometimes it works as breakthrough; most of times does not. One does not need to design triangular door only because nobody did it before :)
     
  13. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    This is very true Alik......I haven't really noticed WoodenBoat/ProBoat stating who the judges are....but they are obviously sticking to pretty conservative values....one must tailor the entry for the judges......I didn't do that at all in Design Challenge 1.......:D

    Really nice submission Will....reminds me (in form) of the stuff Phil Bolger was pushing (in sheet material) 40 years ago....also close in form to the VSV form. I worry that without some immersion of the "sponsons" aft she would be quick underfoot? Love to see some testing of iterations.......

    Tom.....great news! I'm really excited to see someone moving forward with the research.....now if you could only get $20-30 million to test possible variants.....The usual result of testing unusual forms is more questions than answers.........;)
     
  14. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    True...so true Tad. It was the same in the laboratory when I worked for a living. I solved that problem by allowing technicians to take only one set of readings. One can always explain a single result. Its the multiple different results that give the problems, so just avoid them. Astronomers are able to build entire universes using this method. Theologians pioneered the method and are even more successful with it.

    Giving me a lot of money would just confuse me.

    My testing will be low tech just to satisfy my own curiosity. If something reasonable comes of it, so much the better. I will use old Hobie 16 hulls and frame powered by a small outboard as a towing sled. This allows a good look at the model(s) up close with no interference. I do have a home made mechanism for measuring drag but do not attempt to translate that to full scale numbers. On the other hand, the reference model was used in developing plans that several boats have been built from, so that may add some legitimacy to the exercise.
     

  15. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Yes - I had someone more conversant with the use of Michlet run some numbers for me. They were the basis for the consumption figures posted in the word .doc above. I suspect they may be somewhat optomistic at the lower end of the spectrum, but without any additional means of comparison, they were the numbers I ran with.
    The displacement was based on the loaded condition set out by the comp rules, and at this load the flat aft sections are just in contact with the water. Increasing displacement significantly would immerse these sections further, adding to the drag of course....
    The shape of the canoe body is such that the volume increases quite markedly with additional immersion in an attempt to reduce the effects of crew moving fore and aft. There is little in the way of floor space for them to move athwartships, so I don't see that she'd prove too tender under foot as is so often the case with light vessels with nothing under the water.

    I had hoped to have a model under construction by now, but I'm rather pleased to say that other design comittments have preventing me from doing so.
    True to form, I plan to build at a rather larger scale than is typical.... 1:1:D
    Well, not quite... the test vessel will be about 6.5m long and will double as a 'toy' for my boys and I to muck about in.

    As for giving me a lot of money... it may confuse me, but I'd sure be happy!!:D
     
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