Probably far from a new idea

[Southern Cross]

The Dagger boards...

 

[Southern Cross]

The Canting keel. Kanting as a coined product name, that's all.

 

[Timothy]

I think the DSS foil does the same thing without the added complexity.

 

[Doug Lord]

The Canting keel. Kanting as a coined product name, that's all.

---------------------
How would you move the foil sections and how would you hold them in place against high loads? Did you read about DSS?

 

[Southern Cross]

Maybe I was premature in posting these. I drew them while my kid was at soccer practice.

Doug, I have an idea of how to move the foils if moving them that much is necessary at all. Give me some time. Making dinner.

 

[Doug Lord]

Maybe I was premature in posting these. I drew them while my kid was at soccer practice.

Doug, I have an idea of how to move the foils if moving them that much is necessary at all. Give me some time. Making dinner.

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Its not moving them so much as how to have them hold an immense load without moving,

 

[Southern Cross]

Ok. My noggin is at work. I saw you were recognized for something in SA but couldn't figure out what for?

 

[Doug Lord]

Ok. My noggin is at work. I saw you were recognized for something in SA but couldn't figure out what for?

==========
As far as I can determine,its because for years and years I talked about the benefits from foils and how they could change sailing. Ticked a few people off who thought that was ridiculous...... my "predictions" have proved to be correct-the Americas Cup will be sailed on hydrofoils-which is mind bending even to me!

 

[Southern Cross]

Congratulations! Well deserved.

My first response to how could the foil hold the loads would be how does any canting keel support the loads that includes most of the boats ballast?

I imagine it depends on what mechanism is used. Hydraulics seem to work well.

I was thinking that a screw lever bored through the center of the dagger board could pivot the foil by turning a crank at the top of the dagger board at the deck. This could be attached to an electric motor. See attached.

 

[Southern Cross]

Here is another quick sketch

 

[gybeset]

To me, the IMOCA 60's strongly resemble the Aussie 18 skiffs. I used to race the 12' version as a kid.

southern cross
an 18' or 12' are not ballasted what is the strong resemblance?

Do you mean all boats with a visible tangible method of enhanced Righting Moment strongly resemble each other.

An IMOCO & skiff could not be more different, the IMOCA uses plan form stability to a MASSIVE degree, the 18 footer not much at all comparatively.

be aware that some 'statements' will merely attract the crackpots who are beating their drum with weirdo ideas as they recruit you to their dwindling or non-existant supporters

i.e. a whacko whoopdedoo club of necessary co-dependance

I urge you to get on a boat more which is a great method of bringing home the REALITY of sailboat ballast and dynamics, as Do ug Lo rd should too.

 

[gybeset]

Is there a "Dummies Guide to Boat Design"?

No,
but for 'A guide to sailboat designing Dummies" you are already chatting with the main kook

 

[Southern Cross]

southern cross
an 18' or 12' are not ballasted what is the strong resemblance?

Do you mean all boats with a visible tangible method of enhanced Righting Moment strongly resemble each other.

An IMOCO & skiff could not be more different, the IMOCA uses plan form stability to a MASSIVE degree, the 18 footer not much at all comparatively.

be aware that some 'statements' will merely attract the crackpots who are beating their drum with weirdo ideas as they recruit you to their dwindling or non-existant supporters

i.e. a whacko whoopdedoo club of necessary co-dependance

I urge you to get on a boat more which is a great method of bringing home the REALITY of sailboat ballast and dynamics, as Do ug Lo rd should too.

I have a boat. An Olson 30 and having grown up on the South Head of Sydney, there has rarely been a day since that I have not been on or in the water.

The resemblance to me in the IMOCA and skiffs is the way they plane, on their hind quarters. I haven't sailed and IMOCA but I did race 12' skiffs a lot as a kid. Ballast being a different issue. Like I said, if there was a way for designers of the IMOCA 60's to figure out how to hike out ballast they wouldn't have to compensate in so many other areas. Getting the keel to cant and some others getting it to lift completely out of the water is a trend in this direction, I believe.

 

[gybeset]

OSH rd or Pacific street? wharf rd or hopetoun ave?
I'm from the same (VA) 12' skiff club and a skiff now has little in the way of initial sail carrying power that the 60 is designed around,being extreme waterline beam, even the 1960 Taipan 18s wer narrow gutted.
anyhoo we will have to agree to disagree
The 12 footers were kinda not kids boats, rather the VJs filled that role in WB

btw Lionel is still watching over you ankle biters

 

[Southern Cross]

Hey that's great!

I always miss "home" although we only lived there ten years. I'd like to hear how it has all changed and what it's like now. I heard my old high school closed some years ago...

This was back in the mid to late seventies. My friend's older brother had raced his skiff but it had been neglected for some years. It was wood and the varnish was gone on the hull and mast. So with my friend's fathers help we brought it back to life. A lot of work but my first of many experiences in restoration.

I don't know how it is now, probably a lot more serious, but back then it was all kids racing against each other. We raced the 12's, the old Moths (wood) and a boat called a Cherub (don't know if they are still around). I remember racing the 12 a lot in Rose Bay out and around the island and a lot of Cherub races on the north side of Neilsen Park. We raced the 12 over in Manly once. My friend's father organized it all. I was along for the ride. So, I can't remember for the life of me which club or what organization they belonged to. When we weren't racing, we were sailing, every day, balls out, hoping for the Southerly Busta'! I honed a lot of skills back then. Crazy times playing chicken with the Hydrofoils and the ferries, checking out all the topless beaches. Best city in the world.

Back then, the 12's, the Moths and Cherubs were all sailed by kids. These were the boats you learned on to graduate to the bigger boats, such as the 18 and crewing on larger boats. Sometimes you would see older teens sailing them. They would clean up but it was kind of unfair and they looked out of place. It must be much different now. I understand the passion to dinghy sail. Fast, fun, competitive and a good work out. I got my O30 which I single hand for the same reason.

Anyway, my point is...the skiffs have been operating on the idea of a planing hull with a lot of sail area for a very long time as you know. In 60's, the first boat to win the Single Handed Around the World was Suhali, a wooden, full keeled, ketch etc etc. The prevailing consensus on seaworthy design back then was heavy displacement even on crewed ocean racing boats. The idea of a flat bottom and bulb on the end of very long blade was not in the realm of thinking. No one would have thought it possible. Also, the materials were simply not available. So, if you look at the earlier ocean racing yachts and compare how they have evolved, you can see that they have evolved in the direction of the skiff, planing with heap of canvas. I never said they were exactly the same and as they stand now they have probably parted ways in some areas - maybe the skiffs are leading the way again only to have other boats follow in their wake!

Cheers! Nice to hear from someone who lives in WB.

PS. Re Doug Lord. I hesitated for a long time before posting my dumb ideas. It can be humiliating especially when you realize how ignorant you are about design and engineering. So, I have some respect for anyone willing to put themselves out there despite how nuts the idea might be. Clearly, Doug is on to something. In the big picture, it's harmless and I always remind myself that life is not always as easy for all of us.