probably crazy

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by peterAustralia, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 349
    Likes: 23, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 233
    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    Been thinking, probably dangerous.

    As am getting older, thinking of a place to live for longer term. What does such a boat need, space, comfort, standing room, storage space etc. Option one is a barge type, probably best typified by Triloboat. Has also been by taking an old yacht, chopping off the keel and turning it into a liveaboard houseboat. Seems sound enough though may rock a lot as rounded hull does not give much form stability

    Option 2, Outrigger style. Speed not huge issue as mainly live-aboard, windward ability assuming sails, again not such a huge issue. Idea, take an old yacht that no one wants, preferably one that is currently on land. Size is the 22 to 26ft range. Must have separate rudder and keel, not have combined set up. Take this run down hull, strip out interior, and start over,

    Cut off keel, cut boat in two at widest point so as to have a bow and stern. Join these with a plug of around 8ft. Obviously many many stringers required to ensure structural integrity. Stringers must extend well into pre-existing bow and stern, and be well glassed in, Stringers may end up 12ft long. Plug made from 12mm plywood, apart from four of five solid stringer per side extending length of plug plus extending into the ends there would be but pieces of ply, to ensure the join is solid. Extra weight in over engineering no great concern as boat will be riding high with no keel and with additional buoyancy from plug.

    Add two crossbeams and an outrigger, all very simple box structures. End up with a beamy outrigger liveaboard. Cost in dollars not a lot, cost in time a bit. Such second hand run down boats can be had for zero to $2K range. True main hull will have a wl beam of 7ft or so, that is Ok, not going to be fast but not huge issue. Will have immense ability to carry weight with the plug and with keel removed. There would be standing head room through most of the center of the main hull.

    Advantages of starting this way, pre existing bow and stern, anchor, anchor chain, radio, electrics, lights, bilge pump, water and fuel tanks, cushions, galley, possibly an engine, rudder tiller and shaft all pre built.

    I would add a platform between the two hulls to allow walking around, exercise, sitting out in the sun and just doing stuff. If sail a low aspect ratio keel made from recycled hardwood secured via solid drift pins would suffice. LAR would have more draft aft to protect rudder and to facilitate bow reaching shore to reduce need for a tender. Shoal draft means hull can be cleaned on sand bank at low tide. Outriggers and crossbeams demountable allowing for cheaper and simpler transport to the water for assembly

    Probably end up a bit like this tacking-outrigger.com baltic proa http://www.tackingoutrigger.com/baltic_proa.html but with simpler and cruder topsides, crossbeams and outrigger, sail rig would be optional.

    I have been pottering around with boat designs for years and seriously think this to be very practical
     
  2. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 6,772
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Crazy, dangerous, but practical ? :eek: I don't know if sawing a boat with continuous curved lines in half, and slotting a new mid-section in, would be a practical proposition, in most cases. And a heap of work, as well.
     
    Pammie likes this.
  3. JamesG123
    Joined: Mar 2015
    Posts: 371
    Likes: 45, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Columbus, GA

    JamesG123 Senior Member

    This is a re-occurring day dream of mine as well but... reality check.

    Boats are "holes in the ocean you throw money into". If you are on a limited fixed income, you might not be able to cover the reoccurring maintenance costs, much less if something major occurs like a main power or hull failure. Full coverage insurance is expensive and without it, so much as a leaky seacock can mean the total loss of you entire retirement investment.

    Likewise, private marinas and governments from small to large have got shaking down boat owners for money down to an art form. In the US there are very few places where you can live aboard long term without someone holding out their hand for a payoff, and I doubt Oz is much different. Most marina charge liveaboard slip fees comparable to rent or a house note.

    Living on a boat, even a houseboat, but especially a sailboat, requires a certain fitness of mind and body that deteriorates over time. A boat can be dangerous to someone of diminished capacity. Not just working on and operating, but just moving around on one requires assenting and descending ladders and tight spaces with lots of trip hazards. You might be spry now, but if this is supposed to be your "final move", you might find you'll not be able, or that finality might come a lot sooner than you'd want.

    If you lifestyle changes voluntarily or otherwise(see above), there is no guarantee that you'll get your money back on selling the boat, esp. if you've made drastic modifications to it or can't keep it up. Many, many boats are practically given away for just this reason.

    So, sorry, but... unless you've got enough socked away that this is a "while I can", (and if you are forced down to chopping a cheap old sailboat up...) you should try your best to actually own physical, terrestrial, real estate. A home of whatever means that if not out right, you can mortgage, that become equity into the future. With which you can probably acquire a trailer sailor and then you can live out your dream, and avoid those slip fees!
     
  4. Mike Inman
    Joined: Oct 2018
    Posts: 48
    Likes: 5, Points: 8
    Location: Jacksonville, Florida

    Mike Inman Junior Member

    To this point, a pontoon barge with a frame box atop, anchored off with dinghy access to somewhere might just be an angle to consider. Are hurricanes a problem where you'll be dropping hook? Running from a storm in such a craft would be no fun.
     
  5. peterAustralia
    Joined: Mar 2006
    Posts: 349
    Likes: 23, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 233
    Location: Melbourne Australia

    peterAustralia Senior Member

    thanks for all your replies.

    I understand not always easy. I have built a few boats previously, mostly smaller ones. I am 48 and pretty fit, regular bush walker slim, resting heart rate of 58. House prices here in Australia are expensive. Median house prices here in Melbourne has now passed one million dollars, average is higher. Price for house in small town you are looking at 350 to 400K. Yes there are cheaper run down houses in rural areas, these are generally out of the way places though.

    Buying a house here in Australia is not easy for single person on moderate income, not impossible but not easy. typical house in rural area 350K (I kid you not), means an annual interest bill of $12,000 on a 300K load at 4 percent interest, that figure does not allow for repayment of principal. Add to that rates, add compulsory house insurance, add compulsory income insurance, add stamp duty, comes out

    Thinking of medium term, not necessarily for retirement. Buying a house for my circumstances is difficult, not impossible but not easy. Renting is OK, however it is rent whole house my oneself or share with others that may/may-not be good. Share house prices, seriously start $100 per week go up to $250, typical prices $150 per person per week. Definitely much much more for nice house in nice area

    I would not insure my boat, not compulsory, would not use marina. No need to slip as cleaning bottom can be on sand bank at low tide.

    Many outriggers use a straight central section. Thus going from curved to straight to curve gives no great hydrodynamic problems.
    I am doing some sketching now. I really need standing headroom and walking space. Yes a box boat (triloboat), rectangular barge, is definitely one option. A very second hand wharram cat is an option, the problem is the risk of rot.

    Australian authorities seem a fraction more lenient on boaters, they tend not to bother them as long as the boaters do not bother others. I realise resale would be modest, and definitely no return on investment

    I will do some sketches soon
     
  6. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
    Posts: 6,772
    Likes: 178, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 702
    Location: Australia

    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Unless the buttocks and waterlines are parallel to the centreline, where you make the cut, you won't be able to slot in a prismatic centre-piece.
     
  7. KJL38
    Joined: Jun 2008
    Posts: 84
    Likes: 9, Points: 8, Legacy Rep: 75
    Location: Tasmania

    KJL38 Junior Member

    Something to consider is whether registration requires the vessel to have a builders plate which may be problematic with the changes you want to make.
     
  8. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 1,246
    Likes: 48, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    Find a run down, but repairable cat. Keep it intact!
     
  9. Mike Inman
    Joined: Oct 2018
    Posts: 48
    Likes: 5, Points: 8
    Location: Jacksonville, Florida

    Mike Inman Junior Member

    Around here it seems possible to buy two 40' monohulls, in good working order, for about 1/2 the price of a 35' cat in rough shape.
     
  10. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 1,246
    Likes: 48, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    Forget joining monohulls. It is a Terrible idea. The hulls are wider than needed, draft more than needed, and modified will mever perform well.

    Want to live on a boat? Buy a used cat that needs some love.
     
    rwatson likes this.
  11. Mike Inman
    Joined: Oct 2018
    Posts: 48
    Likes: 5, Points: 8
    Location: Jacksonville, Florida

    Mike Inman Junior Member

    The suggestion wasn't to join the hulls, just that things like this: 1980 C&C C&C 40 sailboat for sale in Florida https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/75522 are pretty commonly available sub $30K, whereas this: 93 Performance Cruising Inc Gemini 3400 sailboat for sale in Texas https://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/75830 is a rare "good price" on what would be, to me, a much more cramped cat.
     
  12. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
    Posts: 1,246
    Likes: 48, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    Be careful with the 80s n earlier vintage. Watch out for core rot. I don't know if the C&C has it. But core rot is a death sentence to most all boats.
     
  13. goodwilltoall
    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 765
    Likes: 19, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 31
    Location: nation of Ohio

    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    Yep, i ve wondered about sawing a boat in half as you mention. You should see what is done to steel boats sometimes where exactly that happens. If in fiberglass would have to say it should be a solid fiberglass hull
     
  14. goodwilltoall
    Joined: Jul 2010
    Posts: 765
    Likes: 19, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 31
    Location: nation of Ohio

    goodwilltoall Senior Member

    You also need to answer if it will sail or be outboard/inboard powered.
     

  15. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 1,280
    Likes: 31, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 304
    Location: SF bay

    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    crazy as it seems now, you might be onto something.

    Google "Sausalito houseboats".

    IIRC, all the Hippies using the SF Bay as their personal toilet managed to get Grandfathered in, and IIRC now have proper sewer (and water) paid for by taxpayers. And now they all own some "rights" to a Houseboat space that can be resold. No way in Hell is anyone else able to NOW drop anchor with a Houseboat in SF bay or anywhere else and claim a piece of public waterways. Not sure what the deal is on big lakes and Houseboats in CA but I don't see any Hippies with floating wrecks.

    PS-see my Gallery for my modular cat/platform concept. I'm a landlubber carpenter so its influenced. Could be good for houseboat platform that is also explanable/dis-mountable. Park big RV on it.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.