Proa Circumnavigation?

Daniel sorry I didn't get back to you before.

The new name is Yvette Wijnen, but that is all I can tell you.

Are you aware of Sidecar? It has some unique features and parts the water nicely.

 

Sidecar has to be the most innovative proa built this century. Plus it looks really cool.

 

youall Proa sailors, particularly of Pacific proas, must be way better & braver seamen than I ever was! A light hull to windward, that could easily be "flown" - enough to give me nightmares just imagining it...

 

What if it had a hydrofoil under the ama with altitude control (mechanical or optical) maintaining a near constant ride height whether to windward or leeward while making way?

 

It's a lot like a catamaran, but with a shorter rig and less power. With a bit of water ballast it can be as stable as anything else.

 

...still! Singlehanding too! Chapeau!

 

@tane one of these proa folk might arrange a sailing outing for you to see firsthand this shunting lurk?

 

Well done. The Red Sea is a challenging bit of water, especially in a Wharram.

Not bad at all. Again, well done.

Yes. On a Harryproa as you turn from ddw onto a reach, the sails luff so there is no wind force trying to tip the boat. Then sheet on the new foresail a little to get steerage way and help you bear off, the rudders automatically flip and you steer onto the new course, the aft sail filling as you do so.
Sloop rigs the foresail has to be removed/replaced, crab claws the entire rig needs to be end for ended. Some proas also need rudders raised and lowered. All are slow compared to the Harryproa system.
If the waves are big and steep enough (ie, huge and near vertical) to be a capsize worry while shunting, they will be a challenge sailing any boat.
I agree about "light hull to windward". They are great fun for day sailing, scary for offshore unless the sailors are very good (eg Russ and Ryan) and/or there is a safety pod to leeward which reduces righting moment even further and is a potential trip hazard side on to the seas you are describing. Harryproas have about 60% of their total weight (but way less than 50% of their wetted surface) in the windward hull, so are less likely to get the crew wet or to be at risk of capsize than a similar weight cat. This is an easier, safer, drier and more comfortable alternative to having all the weight in the leeward hull and needing to pump waterballast or move equipment when the breeze gets up.

Looked, didn't see it. No problem, I'll take your word for it.

Sure. Nothing on the latest generation as none have been launched yet. The system on Kleen Breeze (18m/60') was tested pretty hard in sundry accidental groundings, worked well. The owner paid a lot of money to have the rudder design professionally engineered. The result was the same as what we specc'ed. Rare Bird (15m/50' Visionarry prototype) also managed to hit it's share of objects. We broke the first version of the kick up system (the one in the video), the second worked well. Ono, a Visionarry with fixed rudders and 2 daggerboards hit a rock in the Baltic and did some serious damage. The 18m Melbourne proa broke it's mooring and washed onto a beach, bending it's fixed rudders, etc, etc. I hit a lot of things on Elementarry (my test boat) while testing a large variety of rudder, fuse and kick up options before settling on what we put in the current plans.

The cargo proa I built in Aus and the mini cargo proas we built here in Fiji and in the Marshall Islands have 2 different, even simpler, more village suitable systems. My design associate in Norway is also building a clever (different to any of the others) system for his 20m wing rigged Harryproa which he will try on his 9m version. They are all part of our continuous design improvement process. If the end result is better, they will be added to the plans we sell.

Can we agree that rudders and boards that kick up in a collision are superior to ones that don't? And rudders that can be steered while lifted for balance and shallow water sailing, as well as for drying out and to minimise draft when hanging off a sea anchor are superior to ones that don't? The difficulty is to achieve this without it becoming draggy, heavy, expensive or complex, all of which we have done with a high degree of success.

Sidecar is one of many innovative proas built this century. I'm pretty sure the "most" title would go to this one. Sailrocket http://sailrocket.com/.

 

I was talking about your side-hung rudders being proven in ocean conditions. Ocean crossings, steering downwind at speed in big waves, etc.
Sailrocket is not a proa. It's a one-way single-outrigger

 

Yeah. We all know what you were talking about because it's all you've talked about on proa threads for the last 10+ years. You have a lot to offer, yet all you contribute is "have Harryproas crossed oceans?" while avoiding answering questions about your boats.

For example, from this thread:
Describe your "Newick style rudders",
Tell us what would happen to Jzerro's rudder (and crew) if it hit a deadhead log at 15 knots,
The steps and effort involved shunting in big seas,
The steps and effort involved gybing in big waves,
Why the rudders are "complicated to build"?
You could also answer:
"Can we agree that rudders and boards that kick up in a collision are superior to ones that don't? And rudders that can be steered while lifted for balance and shallow water sailing, as well as for drying out and to minimise draft when hanging off a sea anchor are superior to ones that don't?"

If you say so but Paul (Larsen) called it a proa when he came for a sail with us on the Melbourne 18m Harryproa and again in design conversations about SailRocket 3, which is good enough for me. And for a whole lot of Google search results.

For anyone who hasn't read one of my many replies to Russ' Harryproas crossing oceans question: Aroha (grossly overloaded first 12m Harryproa) crossed the Tasman (a Sea, not an Ocean), weathered a 45 knot gale, broke a ring frame, had no rudder troubles. Kleen Breeze sailed from Portugal to the Azores, was hit by a ship, broke a mast when it was alongside, had no rudder problems. Sidecar (the original Harryproa one, not the one in the video above) sailed up and down the West Australian coast with self designed copies of the standard rudders, no problems. Rare Bird (first 15m Harryproa) had a stainless pintle break (poor design/machining) from crevice corrosion while doing pretty well in the Brisbane-Gladstone (Aus coastal race). Blind Date (15m Harryproa which takes blind people sailing in Holland) thought they could improve on the standard rudders, installed end mounted monstrosities which I have had no useful feedback on. I did a lot of miles in (comparatively) big seas off Perth (4,000 mile fetch, regular 20-30 knot sea breezes) in several prototypes. Lots of broken rudders, but they were on my boats, testing different solutions. All of these were development steps towards the latest rudders, none of which are sailing yet. The owners of the other Harryproas have no desire to sail offshore, nor have they had rudder problems beyond those detailed in my previous post for the boats with fixed rudders.

If your reason for not choosing logical, well engineered and tested solutions is that they have not done a bunch of ocean crossings you are not ready for a Harryproa. Stick with 1970's technology, but be careful you don't bump into anything with your rudders.

 

You two....

 

We have to see who can urinate furthest up a wall...

 

I haven't spent much time contemplating HP rudders Rob. The concept seems to be a mod to the steering paddle or oar of yore? The unit articulates, will knock out of the way if bumped and can be raised and lowered. The trick is of course up sizing the paddler's arm and make it controllable.

I can think of a number of ways to do that, for cruising it certainly seems sensible. Higher speeds start getting the challenge of cavitation because of the surface piercing design. Weight wouldn't be a huge difference because of the needed mechanisms. Perhaps we should brainstorm some refinements of these approaches. The Newick approach works, what are crash improvements? the beam mount seems workable too, what are refinements?
No pissing into the wind, slows you down..

 

I did a bit of Google research on rudders and boards with with no end plate effect a while back now, with the object being to have a single board on a cat so no hull penetrations.
The solutions were.
Go deep.
Fences.
Tubicles as on a whale’s pectoral fins.
Cant forward.
Each has its own issues depending on the application.

 

"Fences"

It's simple, cheap and works well