Premonition...

I salute you Hoyt.

In fact, most of the biggest employers in Saffa land such as mines, smelters etc etc are owned by oversees conglomerates and companies.
The irony is that they are raping the current SA workforce off to make max their profits and the poor whites of South Africa gets the burden for that and termed racists using the majority blacks as slaves and cheap labour.

The biggest employer in SA that pays really sh*t is the government and let me tell you this, barely a white face in there or simply put, black screw black and white No wonder we have violent riots all over which is a common occurrence where blacks revolts against their brothers in government...

Frost, you get this Neo Nazi's types / racist types everywhere in the world and is not specific to Dutch or SA whites for that matter....

 

White color job, black color mentality etc... I definitely wouldn't like to live in a country where the local mindset is all about colors... It is not a criticism to you personally - you are a part of that society, have been educated that way and probably can do nothing about it. But it is a sad thing to see when looking from outside.

I understand what you say about the retrograde mentality of a majority of low-level work force over there. The ignorance, the illiteracy and the poverty is the origin of the biggest part of world's problems. It would be interesting to investigate to whom it pays the profit. Are the black populations illiterate because they refuse to become educated, or are they illiterate because it is advantageous to keep them an illiterate and cheap workforce.

As about your figures about mining salaries, this news service is telling a different story: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/17/world/africa/marikana-south-africa-mine-shootings/index.html and talks about $648 monthly wage for miners, which is not so much, given the very unhealthy work conditions of these persons, and given that they are sacrificing 10 years of their life expectancy due to that job.

True, I live far from your country so don't have a first-hand experience about the living conditions down there. I can only rely on statistical sites like this one: http://www.payscale.com/research/ZA/Country=South_Africa/Salary to get a grasp of the average salaries in SA. Or this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_South_Africa . And they both tell a different story from yours, showing a huge difference between wages of white and black people in your country.

 

Diaquiry, exchange rates are funny things and do not present true facts. Also, dont believe everything you read.

The wage you mentioned is after deductions and does not reflect other perks like about 28 days paid sick leave that by the way get used, 32 days paid leave, UIF contributions, pensions contributions and living out/housing allowances by the employer, nearly forgot, 13th check or annual bonus.
Most blacks a polygamist having more than one wife and a string of children at each, no wonder they cannot cope. But then, their president sets the example by recently marring his 9th wife I think it was

I retired at the mines earning a basic salary of USA$1376 monthly after 34 years service on current exchange rates. On a wage like that one could pay off mortgage on a decent house of about 180 - 250 meter square, afford payment on a nice car as well such as a decent VW Golf new or decent used car, pay off some furniture and other stuff and earns a decent living....
OTOH, with a monthly salary of USA$1376 I will not make a decent living elsewhere like the States or Europe having all the things I have here.

In short, although many will differ, during the apartheid era you had black people coming to cities in a big way from rural areas where they worked the land and mostly unschooled. Their off spring during the late 50's, 60's, 70's and in a way the 80's had all the opportunity to attend school but the anc fighting in the background discourage them to do so and rather disrupt the government at the time. The Sharpville shootings were a classic example of just that that shocked the world.
These actions left the country with a "lost" generation educational wise and it is this very people filling the current workforce and is running riot in the country....

At current you have a new generation of young black moving into the workforce that basically never lived in the old days before 1994 who are attending schools and university in droves.
That said, this country is driven by colour and the current government has a policy of affirmative action based on colour and if you are white faced, sorry, no job and that is the very reason you have these exodus of trained whites out of SA. IF you are employed in big business, the chances are certain you get replaced by someone soon, not based on the replacement's eduction, qualifications or experience, but on colour alone.
The government actually "begs" the brain drain as they were called to return to the country but with the worst crime/murder robbery etc ratio in the world, who will return. Personally not heard of one immigrant returning...
BTW, experts already made the fact known that affirmative action had failed big time.

EDIT: Until anyone can prove me otherwise, let me make this statement.

In the world of business you will have the head of company (CEO, President, MD or whatever) then management, supervisors, trades, semi skilled right down to labourers.
The sad fact is that the labourers works hardest, then the semi skilled up to the heavy brass that have everything done for them by all the others below them, plays golf on Wednesdays and works easy hours, not to mention the massive perks from expensive cars, mansions and shares.
Paywise, those on top of the totem pole get the most, reducing down as one decent to the bottom end which are the labourers who earn a pittance for their hard work....
This is a fact all over the world but in South Africa its frown upon because most of the labourers are black, although there are many whites as well on the bottom with them.

 

In fact, I don't.

Your pension is pretty much in line with Italian standards. What was your job in the mining industry?

 

The figure I mentioned was my basic salary which also represent my nett wage after overtimes, allowances etc and all deductions and taxes at date of retirement. My pension is a pittance...

I was a boilermaker serving both underground and on surface. Been foreman for awhile but stepped down to tools again - more overtime = more money

 

True. So you can't disapprove if occasionally (when the red line of social tolerance gets dangerously low), they get pissed off and start a massive strike, to improve their work conditions and wages. Otherwise they wouldn't be men but sheep. I just cannot blame them or any other hard-working and exploited group of persons when they fight for a better life.
But perhaps this is getting a bit too off-topic.

So you didn't have to spend all the time down below, inhaling and swallowing dust all day long, didn't you? I mean, it all gets to this - you were complaining about their requests to have higher wages, saying that they are better payed than some other categories. I think that is dead wrong. I believe that it is wrong to compare miners (I am talking about folks which drill and excavate underground all day long - not about engineers, surface personnel, white collars and the rest of the mining industry population) and their wages to other, much more comfortably working groups of people. Artisans, office workers, engineers, street-cleaners, even firefighters - their jobs are simply cannot compare. So let's simply avoid to say that miners are well-paid because it is not true. No wage is high enough for having to work in the hell and to shorten one's lifetime by several years. That's my general point here, the other SA social issues are beyond my awareness and knowledge, so I'll gladly leave it to others to discuss.

Cheers

 

I hear exactly what you say and you have a point Daiquiri I can relate to.

I started on the mines at the young age of 16 as said before. What I failed to mention is that I started as a sampler spending my days next to rock drillers on the stope faces and have done so for 2 years.
I then became a learner miner and obtained my blasting ticket after a year at the mining college where the students are the labourers, drillers, cleaners etc. I then spent another few years as a miner working in hell as you put it before I became an boilermaker apprentice in 1980....

I have lived down there for many years, and as miner working longer days than the drillers who just go in, drill his quota of holes and then back to the waiting place waiting to knock off from his 6 hour shift. (average lenght of underground shift for all) I had to do charging up the rock faces with explosives that always scared the living daylights out of me.
In short what I try to tell you - I been there, done that and got a T shirt. ANY work in a deep mine is dangerous, even my boilermaker days nearly cost my life a couple of times in the mines underground where I spent at least 5 days in a week - once lit methane gas in a water pipe I was replacing when I cut the rusted nuts off with oxy acetylene torch and was touch and go. Every Sunday I had to work in shafts replacing guides, buntings, pipes etc in the shaft hanging from a flimsy skeleton cage attached under the main cage in shaft over 2000 meters deep!! only tethered with a safety belt. Whilst you hang there a massive 9 meter long 400 - 600mm diameter pipes will be lowered down to you with a winch from surface and l had helpers fallen to their deaths when things got wrong.
Never had any rock driller work under such dangerous conditions as the "white collar" boilermakers, fitters or riggers when we do shaft maintenance and repairs. Underground doing grit repairs in ore passes just as dangerous...

People not aware of deep mining like yourself make easy deductions of what people do and who have the more dangerous jobs...

Finally, back to the strikes; imagine the chaos it will cause if the mining houses grant the increases the rock drillers demands that will put them in higher wage brackets than their peers like qualified miners whom they take instructions from, skilled qualified artisan and all other disciplines in between
This will result in a vicious circle of increases that will not be economical viable and what employer will operate at a loss? I did mentioned that quite a few mines are marginal mines and these will shut down faster than you can say the word.
I retired from a marginal mine in Sept 2009 and the mineshaft I worked and its sister shafts are only a distant memory. Closed and the head gears brought down, and shafts filled with debris of the buildings and infrastructure.

I stay in the Goldfields of SA and just this in year alone Im aware off, 4 shafts were dropped and filled and a few more awaiting the same fate.
But, the Africans cannot fathom that their work is on the line, and crippling the mines with their actions, which may cost them loosing their jobs and only then they wanted to cry wolf...

 

I have a premonition that Jeff will be doing some cleaning soon. Its only 18 months since he had his last clean out of nonesence threads.

I dont mind a bit of a ramble on them myself but there is now quite a few.

I feel rich , Im screwed, Premonition opening in just the last few days.

He has made it quite clear that he is not willing to tolerate crap threads, they MUST be boat related ,that is threads with a boat in it. You guys have very short memories or your doing this in pure defiance of Jeffs wishes.

Whilst I don't agree with many things or people, its his game and his ball he has the right to what he wants.

I assume you guys don't use twitter, well you should go there because that what you using this forum as.

Whilst I have also twittered on this thread I did'nt expect this or other crap threads to have still been here this morning.

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Sorry that this thread has offended you Frosty. If everyone is enjoying a topic, that's one thing, but when threads start to cause offense to other members and are not related to boats or boating, it would be better to take them to a venue where they are on-topic. This thread has now been closed due to Frosty's complaint.