Power boat design for economy.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Frosty, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    This is the boat I own now today. My name is Frosty.

    Has anything changed, It is the boat I showed you 7 years ago.

    I am hoping to achieve your advertised improvement in performance.
     
  2. viking north
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    viking north VINLAND

    Having a long builder/user/observer history of sea as well as land yachts I can see the economy trend slowely starting to change both verbally and three dimensionally within the general working public luckey enough to have a few disposible dollars.(I.E. whats left of the middle class)( No disrespect here for the working poor majority) Thus the market for profitable new boat construction remains with the Upper--(millionaires) Upper-Upper(multi millionaires) Upper-Upper-Upper(mega millionaires). These guys couldn't give a rats *** about costs they can't control, they simply try their damdest to squeeqe designers-builders-and maintenance personel in order to compensate. Hard to change their mindset from natural wood and marble to plastic interiors,especially so when it's counterproductive to attaining profit at all. This combined with natural greed and want of the lower classes drives a hard bargan for logic.
     
  3. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Another total mis.

    We are not talking mega mega mega multi millionare stuff.

    Boats are available for the middle class and economy is the name of the game like your Hybrid Toyota.

    And I dont agree with mega yacht owners shunning economy --Ive seen a few pass through Malacca straits the gate way to the West here where I berth my boat that have attempted economy.

    Not to mention the all electric sun boat travelling the world. I wonder why they are doing that when no one cares about economy.
     
  4. eyschulman
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    eyschulman Senior Member

    Frosty there is no way one can equate the high volumn car production of tens or hundreds of thousand units at 30,000$ a shot to 50ft boats. You are talking oranges and apples here. Light fast and economical boats are already a reality. Every high tech. raceing sailboat often made of exotic light composit will achive great milage with or without the motor. Even the demand for these boats is a drop in the bucket compared to the auto industry. As for light aircraft what makes you think they coast less. Almost everywhere lite is more costly especially ultra lite and strong. I can afford to build your boat but why would I? You see I can also afford the fuel and extra comforts of a not so fuel effiecient boat that Frosty is the answer in a nutshell. If you can build your dream boat do so and maybe it will enchourage others.
     
  5. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Efficiency has nothing to do with " HIGH TECH " . They have been building efficient motor driven craft for a very long time. The rules of engineering never change.
     
  6. Squidly-Diddly
    Joined: Sep 2007
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    I've always felt Japanese style house(apt) tricks should find their way

    into pleasure yacht design somehow.....

    the way it is all light-weight and how living spaces are so multipurpose and transformable.

    Of course, you would most likely be using plastic rather than wood and paper on a boat for rot resistance and durability.
     
  7. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Interesting, heated discussion.

    I wonder if Frosty's proposed boat might find a market after all. No matter how much money I had, I would be most interested in a boat that is as efficient as possible.

    I wouldn't be interested in it because it was cheaper to build or cheaper to run, but because it was a masterpiece of engineering.

    I would buy Frosty's proposed boat if I was in that market and it was as efficient and well engineered as we are imagining it to be.
     
  8. eyschulman
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    eyschulman Senior Member

    Michael were cotton and cavas sails more effient than modern high tech composit sails? The rules of enginering may change slowly(all scientific laws and knowlege is open to possible change) but the materials you use to build with certainly change and that will effect efficiency of a given design.
     
  9. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Frosty,

    Think we've done these numbers before couple of years ago???

    The Hp/Ton..is not great...the L/D ratio is not great..and the hull shape is not ideal...thus, what you have is ..what you have. Save for doing major radical changes, it does what it says on the tin.
     
  10. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    I recall Salty complaining about his cat last year,in waves he said it felt like it was going to come apart and he didn't like that.
    Now he wants to go faster with foils and talks about hybrid Toyotas...must be happy hour(s).
     
  11. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Yes bridge deck slap took some getting used to. My first cat.

    I dont understand the rest of the post sorry.
     
  12. Don H
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Don H Junior Member

    I would probably be one of the customers for the boat Frosty is describing. I have been researching a cruising boat for some time and after changing my mind several times from power to sail and back again I believe that for me, a powered Cat is the best fit.
    It does need to be reasonably economical so be able to sustain a cruising lifestyle for hopefully some time.
    Economy is relative to each person. I have a friend who tows a 14ft hobiecat behind his Prius. I tow a 25ft fibreglass/200hp Merc on a tri axle trailer with a 6liter V8 in an f150. My idea of economy is very different to his.
    I looked at an Azmut 60 for interest sake and the broker called it a “day Boat”. At a fuel burn of 500liters per hour to me it was a 15 minute boat
    However from many articles I have read 1 litre per kilometre seems to be the goal for many manufacturers.
    That’s 100liters per 100km and more than 3 times the amount of fuel I would use towing the boat so it’s still not that great
    I am sure better economy than this is achievable but as others have mentioned it requires a custom build. I would agree that there probably isn’t a viable market for this type of boat or the large manufacturers would be building them.
    Lagoon, Fontaine Pajot, Robertson and Caine build a couple of powercats models but far more Sailing cats so I guess that’s where the market is. (I do like the R&C 47 POWERCAT).
    Economy for a power cat also involves changing the mindset of the operator (I think). Sailors consider currents, wind (obviously) and other factors when plotting a course. Power boaters turn the key, click into gear and push the throttle down, if wind and current are against us we push the stick down a little further so there are economy gains to be had by changing habits as well.
    I have included a link to a cat that has a slightly different concept to mainstream cats. Personally I don’t take to the layout and what I think is a lack of space but the overall concept forms part of the way I think I will go.

    Thanks Don
    http://www.g-catmultihulls.com/features.php
    http://www.g-catmultihulls.com/features.php
     
  13. eyschulman
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    eyschulman Senior Member

    Don H -Looks like stilleto 36 hulls they wont tolerate much extra weight. Put some cruiseing gear on boats like that and a lot of your speed and economy go down the drain.
     
  14. erik818
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    erik818 Senior Member

    If I hadn't been set on building my boat myself, I would have been one of the prospective buyers for a Frosty-type economical power cruiser. To suit my needs I believe the boat would have a maximum displacement close to 4 tonnes and a light ship displacement one tonne less. A higher maximum speed than 15 knots has no value with me; 12 knots is acceptable. At 6 knots the fuel consumption should be negligiable (for me) and the ride smooth and silent.

    I believe the data above can be achieved with a power cat, but I'm trying to find a way to do it with a monohull not longer than 12 m, preferably shorter than 10 m.

    I don't believe that those of us who look for an economical power cruiser are typical for the average customer. The world is large and maybe there are enough of us to make manufacturers interested. If I had to put my money at stake (which I don't), I would rather invest in efficient power cruisers than in gas-guzzling V8-equipped day cruisers (also known as AIDS boats in the used boat market .... if you get one you can't get rid of it.) The trend might be towards fuel economy, but who knows when we get there?

    Erik
     

  15. eyschulman
    Joined: Jul 2011
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    eyschulman Senior Member

    There are lots of fuel efficent used boats on the market all you have to do is run them at one knot below hull speed. If they happen to have oversized motors no worry you only burn as much fuel as you use horse power. Lots of people think you have to run a big diesel hard- not so-just have to keep it under load and bump up rpms for 5-10 min. before you enter port. If you look for boats that will track well at those speeds(usualy semidisplacement hulls) all is well.
     
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