Power boat design for economy.

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Frosty, Apr 11, 2011.

  1. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Frosty, what You specified here is off-mainstream, but we can do it for if You are serious.
     
  2. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    No I don't want a new one just now thank you but thats what I would be looking for that does'nt exist. It is off mainstream? why--Yipster likes it.

    I did not specify Hp required --what do you think that would be and the consiquential fuel consumption. As the thread implies fuel consumption is the bottom line.

    I also found it interesting that some designers here think economy can not be achieved yet you say that boat I specified can be done and that would be economical.

    Another reason for this thread, some designers have just given up on the customer and think they can tell them what they need with a kind of --I know better!!

    A complete boats interior at less that a ton. Draft at the stern so shallow that shafts can be retracted from the water.

    Designers apathy.
     
  3. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    No doubt it can be built, but for the first customer it would be a custom one off item. That investment might require a long long recovery time unless the people responsible for the engineering and the build spread the cost and gambled it would be a viable product before bankruptsy arrived. No doubt it's time has come but people still like their v8 and many their v10 automobiles with fuel heading toward $6.00 a gal U.S. One of the problems with capitalism is once the associated advertisement brainwashs the buying public it becomes an important part of a culture. As a rule of thumb it takes three generations to change a culture. Frosty you are 75 to 100 yrs. ahead of your time. :) so come back to the future -- run your vessel at maximum economy speed --Anchor more--when half your lifes savings are gone run on one engine --anchor more, more, and if you time it just right both you and the boat run out of fuel in unison-- Thats my plan--Geo.
     
  4. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    This is called democracy :D
     
  5. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    Nope still not got it!

    A hummer uses a miniscule amount of fuel in comparison to a power boat.

    I can use a tank full in 24 hours thats 1.5 tons.

    If you want to sell power boats,!!! well

    Bill Gates wont care too much granted but the 40 50foot power boats are toys.

    If you design in that area you should be more concerned with economy than you are.

    Ive had a lot of experience with boats -most owners would not even think of my specifications. They expect the designer to be knowledgeable on modern materials.

    Ive found this thread enlightening and frankly,-- quite frightening.

    Any designers here with some adventure, draw up a boat (apparantly of the future) and see if you get some deposits.

    Any one though of corrigated fibre glass sheet, strength without balsa.

    Ive been toying with the fully retractable surface drive for some time. It must rely on the shallow draft stern though.

    40 foot cat at 8 tons would only be a few inches draft but I don't know you see I cant work this stuff out,--- but if I could Oh boy --

    And please no engines under beds Oh Geeez so many have that. If you ever design an engine under a bed you need shooting.
     
  6. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    No Alik it's called marketing, Western goods are being very successfuly marketed in communist countries and Communist made goods are very successfully marketed in capitalistic countrys. Democracy as was invisioned by our founding fathers really doesn't exist, the working Jo pays far more taxes per earned dollar than the millionaire (capitalism) but his vote ( democracy) is over ridden by lobby groups and backroom deals. Many people confuse the two being hand in hand but in reality today they exist seperately. That my friend is true freedom and representation eluded. --Geo.
     
  7. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    No Frosty i'm not a Designer, just an old limited income boat builder, possibly working on my last build. I understand your mindset and it is actually occuring in stages. In the western world it actually involves a cultural change, it will get there but not in our lifetime. So plant the seed but enjoy life as much as you can while it germinates hopefully for the good of the next generation.--Geo.
     
  8. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    The concept of the boat im typing from now was unavailable 7 years ago. I had to buy a hull that was part completed and would work with my ideas. I can not work things out, I should have listened more at school but engineers are not very good at maths, I have to look at it and something inside says yes --or-- no.

    I may get exited and build a new concept. The ideas above are just the tip of the iceberg.

    I have to say something about the comment of owners wanting a block of flats to entertain and look good with a gin an tonic.

    A low cat looking something like a Lamborgini with accomodation similar to a run of the mill Azimut knowing that the boat can cruise at 30kts at 40liters per hour IS impressive. If it not then maybe block of flats is all you need.

    This thread was about economy, it has been poo poo'd and dismissed as unnecessary and unconventional probably impossibe.



    Give it 5 years. Desperation is the mother of all inventions.

    I find it quiet shocking that designers have said that economy and power boats don't mix.

    Try a little harder?---perhaps
     
  9. ekamarine
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    ekamarine Junior Member

    I agree with you that more effort should be shown to succeed boats with affordable running costs. Of course it's possible to build economy power boats but what's the limit of term "power"? I don't believe that two words "economy and power" get along in the same sentence because people keep asking for more everyday. Look at the sizes of new megayachts, they are getting bigger and bigger every year. When a new step in economy of powerboats are taken, there is a huge amount of people out there who wish to use this extra economy on more power instead of saving it. So for you, economy means low consumption at a certain speed while for some people it means more power with same consumption.
     
  10. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    1. Today's yacht is attribute people used to show that they are rich. Why economy? :)

    2. Most of yachts spend 99% percent of time in marina. Fuel economy?
     
  11. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

  12. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Yes, this yacht does look like very carefully designed, and it's performance is briliant for the power installed. But it still is 5000 HP and 110.000 liters of fuel for a load of 24 persons. I wouldn't call that economy.

    But your point about the fuel-saving possibilities given by using lightweight construction and aero/hydrodynamic efficiency is correct. Anything can be done if there's a true will to do it (starting from the yacht owner).
     
  13. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Anything can be done if there's a true will to do it (starting from the yacht owner)."

    Unless its against the law.

    First law of thermodynamics, Second law of thermodynamics, and so on.

    What ever the will and dept of credit for an owner , or size of vessel,

    60 mph at 60 mpg just is not in the future.

    Light , skinny , complex electronic diesel , big prop is about it.

    FF
     
  14. Steve W
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Powerboat owners just dont seem to care, i see brand new powerboats show up at the marina on a truck, fresh from the factory and part of the commissioning these days always seems to include sanding that nice,smooth gelcoat bottom and rolling on 5 or so coats of barrier coat and then bottom paint, by the time its all done it looks like a rough sidewalk, now clearly that does not go thru the water efficiently but ive yet to see a powerboat owner even notice, when a sailboat (racing) is commissioned it has to be as smooth as a nuns bum because we are dealing with limited horsepower(sail)
    Builders should be able to produce new boats which dont require additional barrier coating, goal? abottom like a racing sailboat.
    I still think the biggest impediment to reducing fuel consumption on powerboats is the insistance on speed, if 10 knots cruising speed is acceptable then everything changes,cruising cats in particular can be incredibly efficient a these speeds, im not talking a boat powered for 20 but throttled back but rather,smaller engines that are opperating in their happy zone at 10, maybe 12-15 at wot. Of course im a sailboat guy so to cruise at 10 knots would seem fast,most powerboat guys see things differently.
    Steve.
     

  15. viking north
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    viking north VINLAND

    I think this was the idea behind Marco Polo-- the yacht not the big square rigger built in New Brunswick, that truly is the most famous Atlantic Canadian built boat.(holds the speed record from Australia to England)--got to sneak my history tid bit in :) Like the yacht in reference it has a narrow beam to length ratio. In ref. to the super yacht it seems the owner had a limit on how far he was willing to go toward the weight/fuel green thinking. Glass and marble are possibly two of the heaviest furnishing materials that one could possibly use and ample use was made of both, plus large fresh water tankage or the oversize watermaker to provide water for the jacussi. I know we live in a world where freedom is important but when the planet is dying from over consumption of fossel fuels is it morally and legally right that one man should cause so much destruction for selfish pleasure. Therein lies that cultural problem,,, we have been programmed as consumers (culture forming) that as long as we can afford these the big fuel guzzling machines it's ok, there are no consequences, thus no peer pressure and no guilt. Like the frowned upon use of natural fur, society has to instill a cultural change of attitute in addition to fuel cost to really kick start the market for far more operational economics and green responsibility not only in boating but energy consumption in general. (natural fur in this case was not a good example as faux fur production from oil kills far more living creatures in comparison, humans included,).--Geo.
     
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