Possible rig for Scarab 18

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by buzzman, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. buzzman
    Joined: May 2011
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    buzzman Senior Member

    LOL

    I like the idea of the 'mast as trailer' but sadly that option is not available in Oz as our road rules require trailers to be inspected and approved when built...and such a "construction" would be unlikely to be approved...

    I'm chasing riggers, but they don't appear to advertise too widely on the web.

    Presumably have enough work they don't need to advertise???

    So, again, does anyone *in OZ* know of a rigger in the SE QLD or northern NSW area who has previously moved a mast or might do so for a fee???
     
  2. buzzman
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    buzzman Senior Member

    And please don't suggest David Lambourne, who has just quoted me $300 to move the mast from Gympie to Brisbane....as a backload for his truck returning from Noosa unladen!

    And specified that that prcie was reliant on him only going 1/2hr out of his way.

    $300 for half an hour's work. I'd like them rates meself!!

    For that I could rent a truck and drive to Gympie myself! :)

    So much for riggers. :(

    Anyone got any other ideas?
     
  3. Ray Kendrick
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Ray Kendrick Designer

    Mast Transport

    Hi Buzzman,
    If you get your trailer first you would be able to transport the mast on that. Alternatively, borrow or beg a lend of a big beach cat (big Hobie or Tornado or similar) and strap your mast to the other and transport it that way.
    Regards
    Ray Kendrick
     
  4. ThomD
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    ThomD Senior Member

    I've been fiddling away with plans for the 18 also. If you want to win all the local races, then with respect, I would wonder why build this tri. If you want a lot of fun like a Jarcat, F18, etc... then I would get a smaller rig, even down to hobie 16 scale. People forget that the Tremolino at 23 feet was originally speced for that rig. That is a boat 5 feet longer than the 18. My Tremolino eater from Kurt Hughes is based on the H 18 rig, if you don't want to build a scratch rig for it. The boat on beam is wider than the 18 is long. In fairness to Kurt, the plans I got a few year's back to update my 20 year old build from are for a far more muscular boat.

    But anyway, I don't see the point of such a large rig for just knocking around. You will have fun getting it stepped. You can't just throw it up by hand. Even the Hobie 18 suggests two people and you are working essentially on a flat field, not 8 feet off the ground trying to scale a hill.

    I'm no expert but if you double the sail plan the area increases by a factor of 4, if you double the boat, it increases in weight by a factor of 8. But when people look at sail plans they want a spar that is say 50% or more over OAL, regardless of scale. I just don't think it takes that much to push such a boat around. That said, Ray designs a beefy boat, and while the 18 is a lot smaller it is about the same weight as the Hughes 24, but the class in general is still a small boat class.
     
  5. buzzman
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    buzzman Senior Member

    Hey, Thom
    Nah, not interested in winning races, but the S16 built in NZ was *underpowered* with a Hobie rig, according to its builder.

    The reason for contemplating the Farrier rig is that it is A) close to the designers spec; and B) very cost-effective, as it comes complete with all standing rigging and 4 relatively new sails. For about the price of a new boom. ;)

    I have no problem reefing the main, and the jib will eventually be roller-reefed.

    Rigging the mast using a gin pole and the trailer winch will be a cinch - I don't anticipate any problems there. Sure, it won't be as easy as sailing off a mooring or marina, but that's the price you pay for *cost-effective* sailing.

    Ray (in a PM) reckons the Farrier 680 rig will be fine for the S18, but may need spreader bars added. No biggy.

    And as I'll be doing mostly camping trips, not day-sailing, the boat will always be fully laden with gear, so will need all the help it can get.
     
  6. jamez
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    jamez Senior Member

    Sounds perfect even if it costs a few bucks to get home. I wasn't aware there was a fractional option for the 680 (not shown on my plans) but a 3/4 on the original mast height (8m) would be a little smaller than the standard MH, so overpowering shouldn't be an issue. Is the boat its coming from getting a bigger rig?
     
  7. buzzman
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    buzzman Senior Member

    No, sadly, it was destroyed some years ago.

    The vendor intended to build a cat and use the rig on that, but has realised it ain't going to happen, hence is offloading the rig he bought for it.
     
  8. ThomD
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    ThomD Senior Member

    Depends on your local conditions I guess. I sure don't see how a 26 foot spar and a battened sail would be underpowered on a 16 foot boat. Anyway, any time you have a chance to pick up any rig at a good price, I am tempted. I would buy pretty much anything from an H 16 to what you are contemplating just to have some options on hand. Rigs don't take up too much space.

    Here we are hacking along with a reef in the Hobie sail, and no jib up. The sail has a luff of about 24 feet, and the first reefing point is pretty much a normal cut on that. I later added a second reefing point. I guess that is what comes from growing up a canoeist/rower and not a sailer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnLmKXY-FCg&feature=plcp
     
  9. buzzman
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    buzzman Senior Member

    Ummm...S18....not S16....

    Designer spec for S18 is for 8.6m mast with 22.8sq m upwind.

    The main and No1 on this rig are only 19.4sq m, a 15% reduction in sail area.

    So it will *probably* not be quite as quick as the designer intended, especially given it will be sailed fully laden with cruising apparatus, stove, cooler box, bedding etc etc...

    ...and therefore could probably be considered *underpowered*.

    Nice tri in the vid, BTW..!! :)
     
  10. ThomD
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    ThomD Senior Member

    I was responding, unclearly, to the idea that the s16 was underpowered with a hobie rig, of course there are different sizes of hobie, so it may have been a small one. We had 4 people on board that day in the vid, one weighing 250 so I think with a few of those overboard we could easily carry a cruising load. Not really challenging your decision since it seems to be well tossed around. Even back when I bought the plans for my boat around 1990, the first thing out of people's mouths would be how under canvased it was. Then the sails we got, were actually slated for use as dropcloths. There is a thread, here in the last few weeks were someone referred to Kurt's boats as under canvased, which I thought was funny as he is pretty much obsessed with speed, not cruising as they suggested, last I heard. No question these day I guess one could have a 36 foot spar on a 24 like mine, but I have never felt the need myself.

    I use a gin pole to raise the spar, and it is a slow business and at first seemed a little dangerous. I would probably make a smaller rig for the S18 that could be hand raised if it were at all possible, or invest in a lot better gear for raising the spar. I really haven't seen an option that has convinced me yet. I like this rig, on paper, but CE looks wrong for the S18 and I don't know how well it would reef etc...

    http://www.ikarus342000.com/ECO6page.htm

    Actually the rig from his 650 but it doesn't include a good pic of the rig any longer, which is odd since he sells the plans for the rig only.

    Quite a lot of cooking goes into making decent mast raising gear. I couldn't raise, or would not want to raise the mast on my boat solo. So far it is something I would only want to do once a season at most even with help.
     
  11. buzzman
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    buzzman Senior Member

    Well, Ray reckons it will be okay for S18, so that's good enough for me.
     
  12. Jetboy
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    Jetboy Senior Member

    I'm also building an S18. Still have a long way to go... but I picked up a Solcat 18 Mast for $100USD and I'm planning to use it with some added diamond wires.

    It seems enormous compared to the mast for my current venture 17 daysailer. Almost scary big. But then if you consider that it was used on an 18' cat with only half the beam and so much less righting moment, I suspect that the 8.5M mast is probably appropriate.
     
  13. buzzman
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    buzzman Senior Member

    The only issue might be the strength of the mast...though as it's for a cat it would still have a pretty good resistance to RM.

    I imagine putting the mast of the 17'-er would not be a good idea, as monos heel and thus depower, so don't need such a strong rig.

    From what I understand (not being a NA myself) the tri needs the stronger mast as it heels least, and therefore needs to resist a greater RM....

    Which is one reason I was so keen to get the rig off the Farrier 860, as it was originally specced for a similar sized tri...
     
  14. warwick
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    warwick Senior Member

    On the Ray Kendrick web site is a link to a scarab 22 that used a monohull mast and what reinforcing was required in terms of additional support.

    The link was to Olivier Blanc scarab 22, similar mast issues? http://www.voile.org/trimaran I cannot remember where in the build section it was but Olivier went into the spreaders he added to the mast.
     

  15. Jetboy
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    Jetboy Senior Member

    I'm not sure the masts are actually that much different between similar sized mono and multis in the small daysailer range. For example the beam of a hobie 16 is 7'1" and my venture 17 is 6'4". I think the difference grows a lot as the boats get larger. I have a hobie cat mast on my daysailer because I wanted a wing profile mast and because I happened to have a spare one sitting around. The mast sections are pretty comparable. The rigging is actually so similar that all the hobie rigging fit without modification right to the venture 17 chain plates.

    Anyway, neither has even close to the RM of a 15' beam on a trimaran with twice the weight. I do think some stabilizing diamond wires will be necessary to keep it straight though. I think the stiffness is more of an issue than the compression loading. The 860 mast is probably pretty close to ideal for this boat.

    I'm just using the mast I have because I happened to find a good deal on it a couple miles from my house. I will also set up the original 22' mast from my venture 17 as a lower powered rig because I happen to have it sitting around. I'll probably look for a hobie 14 main and jib for it. I think it would make a perfect small rig for if I want to let a friend borrow the boat that I don't trust to keep it upright, or kids. With that set up I think it would be damn near impossible to capsize and yet the hull shapes are so easily driven that I suspect it will still sail pretty well.
     
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