Poor man’s passagemaker

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Milan, Sep 24, 2010.

  1. cthippo
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    cthippo Senior Member

    The fuel might be a bit expensive, but you could probably get across the ocean safely in this, and you wouldn't have to worry about headroom! :)

    Only $200,000

    http://www.maritimesales.com/MAT10.htm
     
  2. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Average price 32 000€ = 43 000$. And most with 30 year old engines, sails and rigging. Absolutely unsuitable for even a single passage."

    Perhaps those boats are clapped out , but the one at our dock HAS a new mast and rig with a new Hood mainsail.Roller furling , autopilot and self steering too.

    The engine IS old , but runs just fine ITS A SAILBOAT!!,

    However if you would want an almost brand new identical Volvo MD 17B , we have one of those , an extra $3,500 with tranny , ready to drop in.

    Many of these older boats are used as club racers , so many are in excellent condition.

    For $10K you also get a new soft interior and Teak & Holly cabin sole.

    Come on down, and go cruising , bring your own food.

    You can be off the dock, as soon as the cash is counted, no rebuild needed.

    FF
     
  3. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    So... a racer... not much to do with cruisers and even less with passagemaking.
    I was taking about 10 tonnes of displacement by the way ;) The point in passagemaking is to cover long distances with a certain comfortnes. This includes many things more than just cold wind and spray. To achieve this something else is needed also aboard in addition to provisions. There's an obvious reason why so many boats stay in marinas :rolleyes:
     
  4. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Yeah Teddy, you did talk about proper size...........




    .........which is a bit above 10 tonnes BTW.


    Regards
    Richard
     
  5. Wavewacker
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    Wavewacker Senior Member

    That's what I thought when this was originally posted. There is a guy in the St. Louis area that wrote an article about what he called "terminal trawler" about various small sailboats with rigging stripped that could be powered and used for cruising. O'Days, MacGreggors and Hunters were just some suggested. They have suitable livable or campable interiors for thier length compared to any power cuddy or trawler of similar size. And yes, one could not be embarrassed to be seen in one, but they fit the bill with a fuel sipping 25hp outboard. No, I would not go into the North Atlantic in one. But then, many of the minimalist passagemakers at 32+ feet mentioned here won't be cruising thousands of miles of rivers and canals of North America either.

    And, around 99 or 00, (I think it was) Mercury was introducing a 50hp Big Foot outboard. They put it on a 16 or 18 foot aluminum deep V baot, decked over part of it and covered the rest in canvas and took off on a circumnavigation....anyone know what happend to those two guys? They didn't die at sea, they had the press following them.
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    The next (idiotic) statement about the possibilities to survive at sea.

    What, please, does this have to do with a capable motorcraft, able to circumnavigate in at least some basic comfort?

    People ventured at sea in and on anything. They failed more often than not, did you notice that?

    We can point towards another 100 examples, how completely insane people survived a trip. Does that make their tasks, or their voyages appreciable?

    Do YOU, personally like to go to sea on floating crap?

    Have you ever crossed a ocean?

    Was the boat under 300ft ?

    What was the name of your favourite stewardess?

    Regards
    Richard
     
  7. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    One of these http://sailboatdata.com/VIEWRECORD.ASP?CLASS_ID=4041
    anchored next to us last night....it occurred to me that one could go an awful long ways in such a boat and be pretty comfortable......three cabins, two heads (which is silly), plus a roomy cockpit that can be easily closed in with weather curtains, nice little 50HP Perkins, and there's a few available at $60-70k asking....hard to beat........
     
  8. Landlubber
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    Landlubber Senior Member

    ...yeah, Laurent Giles design, they have a good following here, but they sail very slow
     
  9. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "but they sail very slow"

    31ft LWL, should run 100 miles a day , as usual for smaller self steered cruisers.

    FF
     
  10. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Milan, I still don't know what your budget is. I saw a nice boat but it's beyond poor* in my eyes so don't know if I can post it here... What's the limit..??

    If you want I can compromise and post a poor mans thing too. But that would be a sailboat if we're talking passagemaking...

    Please let me know :)
    * + side​
    Cheers,
    Angel
     
  11. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Angel.. It's more hypothetic discussion what a "poor-mans-passagemaker" would be like.. or does such a vessel even excist at all..
    Anyway, I'm building my version ;)
     
  12. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Yes I know, but Milan started this thread so best he draws ± the $$ line here...
    ...or maybe he and the public wants to see them here anyway..?​

    Happy building :) !!! - - Where's the thread..??

    Cheers,
    Angel


    PS - with a Gollywobbler..?
     
  13. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Thanks.. got a few pictures and sketches in the gallery but no thread so far.. maybe later.. Anyway it's a longrange motorsailor, thus the gollywobbler (nobody seen one in a ketch yet ;) ) and CPP in the avatar..
     
  14. Milan
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Milan Senior Member

    [
    Hi Angel:).

    I’m not really in the market for such boat at the moment. I’m sailor, not really power boat guy, but I’m interested in boats in general, like many different kinds.

    I sailed before mostly on modern yachts, but last years, I got slowly involved in the traditional Dutch sailing ships scene end there will be my primary focus for forciable future. I can get there all sailing that I want end more.

    I also have a full time job in totally different field that pays the bills, so less time for sailing then I would want. This year, I finished first year of maritime school, (http://www.ezs.nl/html/diploma_kleine_zeilvaart.html) and got certificate for the skipper of sailing ships of maximum length of 40 meters in coastal navigation. Before I’m allowed to actually become a captain I need first to accumulate a lot of experience as a deckhand on that kind of ships.

    I followed Richard’s passagmakers threads with interest, and understood potential.

    Inspired by that and one very long thread in which I took part couple of years ago, (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/bo...oats-versus-motorboats-11479-6.html#post87621), I thought that it might be interesting to explore what can be done for much smaller budgets. Not really poor, that’s impossible, with such boat, but for a kind of price that might be achievable for the middle class. Not sure how much, it depends from many factors, say, somewhere around 300 000 – 400 000 Euro, new built, aiming for less.

    Boat should be very seaworthy, able to visit very desolate, rough places, high latitudes. Simple as possible, workboat type finish, economical to operate – low resistance hull, long, narrow, low, auxiliary sail plan, (cheap, simple, traditional Dutch type short gaff rig, schooner). Volume for living and comfort level similar to the 12 meters sailing yacht.

    I always liked older lifeboats, (Neeltje Jacoba kind of type, you know them:)). (She is for sale by the way) - http://www.devalk.nl/index.asp?language=en&page=detail_yacht&reference_no=64368), and tought that their modified general form and hull shapes could be good basis for the (economical) passagmaker. Passagmaker would have one engine and normal, streamlined hull, not 2 engines and tunnel hull as Neeltje, a bit ligther built overall. Doesn’t have to be double ender, could have a transom stern.

    High time to draw some sketches. I will, one of these days, don’t have much free time.:rolleyes:

    Oh, yes, feel free to post them please, I’m interested in your finds, you have a good taste. I like those from your previous post 66, although they are not exactly what I’m aiming at in this thread.

    Cheers
     

    Attached Files:


  15. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Milan,

    Thanks for the information. I came across this one, a nice boat to share the info about but to much sail for Richard's threads and over budget here.

    Keepvogel - desined by Arend Lambrechtsen. - -(here a Google translation of the Keepvogel info)
    To keep the thread's budget in balance here also one that is on a tighter budget.

    The poor man’s ocean cruiser - desined by Tom Colvin.
    About Neeltje Jacoba, I know the story of Mabel and 'de Dominee' ('the Reverend'). Quite an interesting story for a boat to be in the middle of constitutional crisis with the monarchy at stake and one prince thrown out of the line of throne succession. I guess most non boaters in Holland only know Neeltje for this story. But she is more than that..!! But I once read that parts of her ‘‘kieptanks’’ (how is that called in English?) were removed to gain interior space after she became a yacht. So she lost her self righting capabilities. I guess Dorus Rijkers' hart would cry if he knew about this. Dorus died a year before Neeltje was launched but he has seen Insulinde..!!

    Good luck with becoming a captain on the large Dutch traditional sailing charter ships..!!

    Cheers,
    Angel


    PS - just saw the info about the removal of Neeltje's kieptanks is also on Wikipedia, I added the links...
     
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