Polyester resin drying?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by jawnn, Aug 17, 2015.

  1. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    All of the Varathane products are simply coatings, not waterproofing agents or some sort of magic wood restoration product. Simply put, once wood is rotten, you're not going to turn it into any else. Some truly waterproof coatings can make the rotten wood a bit firmer, but it's still very weak comparatively. Basically these types of products embalm the wood, assuming you can fully encapsulate it and the end result, is a plastic/decomposed wood core over which you can laminate fabrics, to provide additional strength. As a rule, wood rot is treated as cancer, in fact is often called wood cancer and treatment is the same, you cut it out, until you're sure you've got all of it and replace it. The amount of penetration a coating shows, has no bearing on how well a product works in waterproofing something. It's the quality of the coating (how waterproof it is) that's the deciding factor. The easy check is to read the side of the can of goo you're about to use. If it says 100% solids, you can pretty much bet it'll be waterproof. If it says anything else, well it'll be somewhat less than waterproof.

    Some Varathane products can be used on steel and other metals and does have the flexibility to stay put. But the real question is why do you want a clear coating on this steel floor? The best things would be plating, powder coating, truck bed liner and the LPU's in descending order. Plating and powder coating require the full disassembly and dipping or cooking of the part, so probably out of the question, so this leaves a polyurethane or polyurea (truck bed liner) or LPU or epoxy paint job. Cost wise, a real epoxy primer and paint would be the logical choice, as the LPU's are difficult to apply comparatively. Epoxy on metal is a very common thing to do and very effective.
     
  2. jawnn
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    jawnn jawnn

    I have a gallon of Varathane with aluminum grit for floor durability, which I will use for the top of the particle board.


    And not use any liquid nails, just use Bondo in the seems to help hold it down.???? unfortunately that is a polyester resin.....

    The particle board say this only: “350 series”... I would like to use up the penetrating epoxy I have on the top surface, but I do not trust it. Or get more for the rotten wood that I do not want to dig up and remove.

    what can I use to water proof the steel???? ok I think nothing will do. Or just use the last of the so called penitrating epoxy.
     
  3. ondarvr
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    ondarvr Senior Member

    This sounds like a mismatch of all the wrong products to get the results you would like.
     
  4. jawnn
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    jawnn jawnn

    I was reading on another forum about how Ospho does leave a waxy film, that must be cleaned off with mineral spirits before applying oil based paint, and probably anything else.
     
  5. jawnn
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    jawnn jawnn

    maybe I should just not put anything on top of the ospho.....sound like the safest thing to do.
     
  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I agree, a complete mismatch of products and misguided expectations. Now this strand board is "particleboard"? Particleboard has no place where any hint or the mere mentioning of moisture might be.

    Louisiana-Pacific makes the 350 series of particleboard. It's a subfloor product and is water resistant, not waterproof. It will swell up and delaminate with moisture presence. It can tolerate a dropped glass of water, if it's cleaned up reasonably quickly, but in your application where condensation will likely be always present, you'll have issues. The ideal sheet product would be "exterior" plywood. There's two types, one says simply exterior, while the other says "exposure 1 exterior". The exposure 1 stuff isn't what you want. Get the exterior grade and make sure it doesn't say exposure 1 anywhere on the stamping or label.

    Bondo absorbs moisture and doesn't tolerate vibration very well. It also doesn't stick to wood very well, so it's not recommended. It's fine to fix a dent in your car, but not wood.

    Again, an epoxy primer will seal the steel. Over coat this with a single or 2 part poly or epoxy and you're good to go. If you want to cheap out on this step, consider truck bed liner, with is a one coat step, but the costs will likely rival epoxy primer and any over coat.
     
  7. jawnn
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    jawnn jawnn

    terminal cancer of floor

    Is the exterior plywood you mentioned, marine grade plywood? that is about $130 a sheet.

    I was thinking it maybe afordable to get some "GLUVIT" and not worrie about it stiking to the ospho covered metal. What is a name of some epoxy you would use?

    I don't think I can come up with another $400 or more.

    I figure the floor has terminal cancer and will die soon.....I simply can not remove all of the old plywood flooring. I am going to have to try to keep the condinsation down to a minimum some how. cook food out side. seal the floor edges of the floor....dream on......

    ok I think this is the nasy stuff I foolishly used and removed:WEST MARINE Polyester Boaters Resin......you think it would be ok in place of the GLUVIT at more than twice the price????

    so putting resin on the 350 particle board is useless......? I am not seeing exterior grade....what comes up is called "Pressure-Treated Plywood" sound like the tright stuff......but what do I know!



     
  8. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Exterior plywood is what you get at Lowe's/Depot. It's not marine grade, but does have a waterproof glue. PT (pressure treated) isn't what you want, just plain old exterior plywood.

    Gluvit is a rebadged product and basically what they sell to folks, that don't know what it is. West Marine Polyester boat resin is also a rebadged product (Bondo I think) and works fine on polyester, but little else.

    Thee's really no saving dead or nearly so plywood (or solid lumber for that matter). It's like having a tumor on your arm and only cutting out half of it and putting a bandaid on it. You can bet it'll return.

    You can seal up the rotten mess, which will give you some time, before these issues come back, but it has to be a fairly thick coating of epoxy, after you've removed the loose and worst of it stuff. 3 Coats of straight epoxy, with special attention to the edges and end grain. Look at "MarinePoxy" at > batueau.com <, as it's about the cheapest you'll find. They can mail it to your door, for half the price of West System or System Three. Also check out RAKA.com as their cheaper epoxy is also about as low as it gets.
     
  9. jawnn
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    jawnn jawnn

    ok I found the epoxy. How thick should it be applyed? 1/4 inch? will this stuff brush on?

    I was looking on the home-depot site for the "exterior plywood" the only thing that comes up is pressure treated and other stuff that does not have the proper discription.

    I will have to get the exterior ply at a local yard any how......I will just make sure it has "water-proof glue".....yes I will remove the rotten ply under bed....but sealing the wall edges are teh hardest.

    thanks for the massive amount of help.....I gotta finish this project before the end of the long hot summer drought.




     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  10. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    PAR has given you some sage advice. You don't need a book although there are some good ones. System 3 Epoxy is in your neighborhood and you can download a free handbook from them as well as WEST and a couple others that will give you some clear direction on what is needed.

    Fix it quick and cheap stuff is mostly a waste of time, effort and money as you have already proven to your dismay. Exterior fir plywood is not nearly as expensive as you stated and is the minimum adequate material for your floor. Processed material like strandboard, OSB, particle board, etc, is crap and not good enough.

    No matter what anyone said, polyester products on top of epoxy will lead to the mess you have except in some special circumstances.

    Your responses ("How thick should it be applyed? 1/4 inch? will this stuff brush on?") indicate a complete lack of understanding of these materials and looking to this forum or any other for the basic background you need is not going to be productive.
     
  11. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Every Lowe's/Depot in the country sells "exterior" grade plywood.

    [​IMG]

    These are the labels you'll typically see on plywood and the one on the far right is the one you want.
     
  12. jawnn
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    jawnn jawnn

    well thanks, honey catches more flys.... well I hope this epoxy will do the job, I am ordering it today. I just hope 1.5 gallons will be enough......



     
  13. jawnn
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    jawnn jawnn

    OK I will find it....thanks! I do not live near a lowes or home depot.


     
  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    There are 4 Lowe's in the Port Townsend area and though I didn't check, I'll bet an equal number of Home Depots as well.

    [​IMG]
     

  15. jawnn
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    jawnn jawnn

    OK I went tot he lumber yard today....and they said they have CDX for exterior plywood. It has nothing about the labels you showed me. The dolts that sell the stuff could not say for sure that the glue was water proof. no wonder I don't know what I am doing.

    They said it is good for walls. and water resistant for sure. but not for laying on wet surface. well I think I will just have to get it and coat it with epoxy. I sent for 3 gallons yesterday. if that aint enough...ha!

    actually I think the sub-floor is going to rust out from under me no mater what I do, there is not much metal left. I really need to have a miracle happen so I can get another trailer and build it right from the start.

    You got close on the map.... but i do not have a car or truck, and they will charge way too much to deliver that far. SEQUIM is closer than Brimerton.

    so what is the difference tween the CDX and the stuff that you want me to get? "CDX sheathing is used primarily by contractors to build exterior walls and roofs. The letters “CD” represent the veneer grades used on the front and back, and “X” means the glue (not the wood) is rated for outdoor exposure—but only for a short time"


    Plywood Glues - Some consumer advocate groups are concerned about the possible health hazards of adhesive chemicals used in plywood—especially urea formaldehyde and phenol formaldehyde. As a result, some plywood manufacturers now use low formaldehyde-emitting glue systems, denoted by an “E” rating. Check with your local plywood supplier and ask about E-rated plywood.

    well this is interesting: pressure-treated plywood has a tendency to corrode and destroy metal—up to five times faster than untreated wood. I treated some lumber that will hold up my bed with the same stuff. but it will be intact with the epoxy only.

    I am hopping that a little wax from the Ospho will not affect eh epoxy.. there is just no way to get it all off. in fact the label says nothing about removing residue before painting.
     
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