Political blurbs and agendas

Skippy - ok - I'll point a finger - middle digit, pointing upwards!... of course I read all the posts. And if I didn't think this was a worthwhile discussion, I wouldn't have joined in the 1st place.
Perhaps YOU should read things a little more carefully... this thread, which I think Gonzo was very sensible to raise before things get out of hand... was NOT a political thread - it was a thread to discuss the appropriateness of political comment on this forum. That it degenerated into a name-calling exercise is, as I said before, a perfect example of why politics (in the sense that Gonzo intended) should have no place here.

Safewalrus, Gonzo... thanks!

 

Willallison - you said it! Despite the heavy language and seriousness of the debate, it was I believe something that we all can and should learn from! Gonzo may come from a different angle than most (he's an Engineer with a capital E, that's what Engineers do, make us think!) I might not agree with ALL he says (passionately at times) but I will NOT DENY his right to say it! And I will I hope learn from it! may be not what he wants me to learn, but thats life - ain't that politics? in it's own form ..... But please can we have a rest from thinking, I'm only a simple sailor and my brain hurts. Remember these forums are mainly for entertainment, other wise we become a bunch of grumpy old men (and the wife rekons I be one of those anyway - the five year old calls me 'whingey-nija'!!)

 

Willallison: Skippy - ok - I'll point a finger - middle digit, pointing upwards!...
First of all Will, thank you for reading my post.

Willallison: Perhaps YOU should read things a little more carefully... this thread, which I think Gonzo was very sensible to raise before things get out of hand... was NOT a political thread - it was a thread to discuss the appropriateness of political comment on this forum.

Second, if you insist on quibbling over semantics, then fine, it's a thread about political comments rather than a political thread. But your hair-splitting over terminology doesn't change anything. You complained that posts on this thread have not been about boats, even though that's not the subject of the thread. That was my point, and I hope you can forgive me for not using perfectly exact language. Do you mind if we discuss "political comments" on this thread rather than boats? Or does that still bother you?

Willallison: And if I didn't think this was a worthwhile discussion, I wouldn't have joined in the 1st place.
Third, I would again dispute the contention that you have "joined the conversation" in any constructive way. Your main point seems to be that we shouldn't be having the conversation in the first place! Your only other point has been to accuse people of insulting each other.

Willallison: Come on Guys! By my count there have been 26 posts in this thread since anyone made mention of BOATS in any way shape or form
Skippy: Will, this is a thread about politics in an "Open" forum. It doesn't have to be about boats.
Willallison: ...now there are 30 non-boating-related posts... including mine!!

Willallison: ... of course I read all the posts.

Willallison: Now, can we please desist from this unending to-and-fro of insults
Skippy: I would point out that it's mostly safewalrus who has been calling people names
Willallison: That it degenerated into a name-calling exercise is, as I said before, ...

Will, do you really, truly believe that you are responding to other people's posts in a way that takes them into account? Because if so, then you're blind to your own closed-mindedness. You complained about non-boat posts, ignored my explanation of why they're not a problem, and complained about them again. Then you accused people of insulting each other, ignored my point that only one individual has been doing that, and accused people again, this time of "name-calling". To repeat yet another point that you have ignored, most of the posters on this thread have not been insulting each other or calling each other names. Or giving them the finger.

To clarify more of my imperfect language, by "reading people's posts" I meant to suggest that if you both read and understand people's comments, then maybe you shouldn't repeat those comments after someone shows that they're unfair or irrelevant. It's not a constructive contribution to the discussion, it's just more BS.

 

For heavens sake, this debate has caused more blooming rows than the politics.
Its Xmas, just leave it and lets all get on, life is too short for all this.......
Can't we just close the thread? We understand and I think mostly agree with what Gonzo was trying to say, although he may have put it slightly better.
Personally I do not agree, as the old saying goes, 'I hate what you say, but I will defend your right to say it', especially in an open forum.
Anyway merry Xmas all and have a great 'Scottish' New Year.

 

boltonprofiles: For heavens sake, this debate has caused more blooming rows than the politics.
Its Xmas, just leave it and lets all get on, life is too short for all this.......

First of all, I'm not sure a discussion about politics is going to be any less contentious than the politics itself. That's just the nature of the beast.
Second, Paul, nobody is forcing you to participate in this thread. The "rows" are not caused by a debate, they're caused by rude individuals who call other people names, give them the finger, or try to have the thread closed. Gonzo and Vega seem to have patched up their little misunderstanding, and the only people I see being rude are the ones who object to either the content of the thread or the thread itself. As far as I'm concerned, those people should take your advice and leave the thread to those of us who are interested in it, instead of being rude or trying to get it closed down.

boltonprofiles: Can't we just close the thread? ... Personally I do not agree, as the old saying goes, 'I hate what you say, but I will defend your right to say it', especially in an open forum.

With all due respect Paul, can you really be so naive as to believe you're defending people's right to free speech just moments after asking for a thread to be shut down??? That's absurd! If you mean people's right to vent their political agendas on the boat forums, nobody has that right unless Jeff says so. Use of this forum is a priveledge, it's not a public square. If you mean you defend people's right to discuss limitations within the forums, then asking to close this thread is just plain hypocritical.

And now that you're explicitly advocating for the thread to be closed, I would like to discuss one more thing:

boltonprofiles:
I am no longer sure what is 'correct' or 'incorrect' to post
Perhaps the forum is not for getting to know people, only for posting information
In business ... there is still room for a little non disruptive banter.
I can understand the reasons why politics can be disruptive and can actually drive a wedge between people so perhaps if it is only politics that you are objecting to it may not be so bad but I am not sure it is only politics and there have been comments about any type of deviation other than information posting.

Paul, I have never seen anyone complain on the boat forums about anything except political BS. If you've seen any objection to simply joking around, I would like know where those comments are if you can find them, because that sounds very strange to me. As far as I know, nobody here expects people to act like little information-exchanging robots or otherwise stop being human beings just because they're talking about boats.

What worries me is that you seem to be having a lot of trouble seeing a middle ground between either having no rules about politics at all, or everyone behaving like little robots. I believe you're an experienced businessman, aren't you Paul? Is it really that hard to allow people to chat and have a little fun without preaching politics? Just don't use the boat forums for your own personal agenda, and I'm sure everyone will welcome you. I don't see what about that is so hard to understand.

boltonprofiles: Anyway merry Xmas all and have a great 'Scottish' New Year.
Merry Christmas, I hope you have an enjoyable holiday.

 

Skippy IF you read this properly you'll find I haven't insulted anybody personally ..... yet! Nor have I wrritten in Bold to indicate shouting! Get frustrated a little, yes! But as too shouting my head off NO!

Here we go - UNLIKE YOU, WHO SEEMS TO DELIGHT IN WINDING UP! I take it from the description of where you come from (cornfields) that it's somewhere many miles from water, thus you probably don't know what a boat even looks like (except in your marvel comic books) - so go find a farmers forum to disrupt, or have they already sent you packing? My comments on "stones fighting" seems to cover your good self, So enjoy your cold turkey and goodnight

 

I agree. Hail our benevolent dictator! The thread brought up many good points. If I had the perfect answer to start with, it would've been unnecesary.

 

Skippy, I don't feel like I have to defend myself on my opinion and I am not a hypocrite but I don't do middle ground as you either have a rule on what is acceptable or you don't. I have already said most people agree with Gonzo so that should be enough for us all and I respect the wishes of this majority so I will adhere to the middle ground without any problem whatsoever from now on.
The reason I mentioned the critical issue of shutting down the thread is simply to avoid this very thing, a more volatile situation than the politics are between members. I am surprised to say the least on the verbal attack and the strenght of feeling when I have said all along that I was a supporter of completely open threads on any subject in open forum but enough is enough in my opinion and as I said I will respect the opinion of the majority in this case. I have no desire to fight against the majority further which will only cause more ill feeling, although I have bit my tongue on several occasions like now.
I have no wish to fall out with anyone so I will exercise my right not to participate in this thread from now on and I genuinely hope you do have a good Xmas and a super New Year.
I have followed some of your other threads and I like your spirit and fight for what you believe in but to me there is always a cost in this respect.

 

safewalrus: Skippy IF you read this properly you'll find I haven't insulted anybody personally ..... yet! Nor have I wrritten in Bold to indicate shouting!

sw, you used the terms "boring ^&$*#s" and "smartasses". If you weren't referring to people posting on this thread, then who were you talking about? No, you didn't name names. But all that means is that your name-calling was vague enough that it could apply to anyone who has posted here. All it means is that you didn't have the guts to admit who you were calling names. Who were you calling names, sw? It sounded like it included me, and I don't appreciate that at all.

As for the bold type, ask someone who's familiar with internet etiquette. Bold type does not indicate shouting, all capital letters do. And even the bold type I've only used to set off quotations from what I'm saying in the post.

safewalrus: Here we go - UNLIKE YOU, WHO SEEMS TO DELIGHT IN WINDING UP!
THAT is shouting.

safewalrus: I take it from the description of where you come from (cornfields) that it's somewhere many miles from water, thus you probably don't know what a boat even looks like (except in your marvel comic books) - so go find a farmers forum to disrupt, or have they already sent you packing? My comments on "stones fighting" seems to cover your good self, So enjoy your cold turkey and goodnight

Goodnight sw. I see you're insulting me directly now. What happened to "You may not like what the guy has to say but at least let him say it!"? Am I boring you? Is that what free speech is all about to you sw? Entertainment value? The only thing I'm disrupting is your rude behavior toward other posters, which you're now directing at me. You're the one disrupting an open discussion of the thread topic. Whether or not I "delight" in pointing out other people's bad manners, at least I don't call them names, try to shut down their discussion, or make fun of them based on where they live. It sounds like all your noble platitudes about free speech evaporate once someone disagrees with you or doesn't entertain you enough. Why don't YOU find another forum to disrupt.

 

gonzo: I agree. Hail our benevolent dictator!
Sorry gonzo. I assume you're talking about me. Here in the "cornfields", people have a strong sense of good manners and fair play, and it makes my blood boil when people toss around BS and insults like it's just the "good ol' boys havin' some fun". It's not fun for the people on the recieving end, it's just BS. I'm sorry if I've been a little heavy-handed about it.

 

boltonprofiles: I don't do middle ground as you either have a rule on what is acceptable or you don't.
That's fine Paul. It just seemed like your proposed rules were a little extreme. Teasing and fun are not the same as politics. That's all I meant.

boltonprofiles: I will adhere to the middle ground without any problem whatsoever from now on.
Glad to hear it.

boltonprofiles: The reason I mentioned the critical issue of shutting down the thread is simply to avoid this very thing, a more volatile situation than the politics are between members.
I guess it didn't work. I like to think we're all more grown-up than that, but I probably shouldn't dispute the issue, you may well be right.

boltonprofiles: ... to me there is always a cost in this respect.
Good point, that's very true. Unfortunately, some of us benefit less than others from going along with the crowd, and benefit more from speaking our minds because we have more to say. Thanks for the response.

boltonprofiles: I genuinely hope you do have a good Xmas and a super New Year.
Likewise to you.

 

I meant Jeff is a benevolent dictator in the way he manages the forum. He is very lighthanded in how he does it.

 

Really??? You mean I'm off the hook??!!! Yippeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But now I'm not sure what you were agreeing with. I guess I can't lay any claim to being "lighthanded". But yes, Jeff has been very understanding with all of us.

 

Even me!

 

But don't worry Skippy my fishing rod will be back out in the New Year! I promise not to miss you