Pocket cruiser cabin headroom

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Sobell, May 19, 2018.

  1. Sobell
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    Sobell Junior Member

    What is the minimum length required in a pocket cruiser/trailer sailer in order to have sitting headroom in the cabin? Cabin would have a V- berth and a couple of small lockers aft, P&S. What would be the best hull type for maximum cabin within a minimum-sized hull?
     
  2. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Wow, what a difficult set of questions, with no real answers. A reasonable headroom is about 36" above the berth and assuming a reasonable berth height of 12 - 16", you're looking at 48"+ inside the cabin. Your questions are so broad, they really defy good answers. You can make a 48" tall enclosure on a 14' boat, but you may not like the way it looks. Most reasonable pocket cruisers are 18' and can provide what you're asking, but many have designed much smaller. At 18', you have enough length to offer a real V berth, with enough foot room for an average size human, maybe some locker just aft of this, plus a cockpit where people can lie down and get some sun on the seats. When you get much smaller, everything shrinks, except the size of the average human, so a point of no return exists. As to best hull shapes, well this is operational dependent, more than most other things, so you'll have to refine what you needs are, what the boat must do, etc.
     
  3. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I think that at short lengths a scow is a good choice. They offer a lot more volume than a more conventional hull.
     
  4. Tiny Turnip
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    I recently sold my Winkle Brig. This design squeezed 2 quarterberths and a v berth into a 16ft overdeck 15ft water line.

    I slept two adults and two children in it on a number of occasions but it was very cramped and really only comfortable with 2.
    The design is a very pretty, nostalgic little gaffer, but relatively complex to rig and somewhat tricksy to sail. Lots of information including ga drawings on the Winkle brig web site. Winkle Brig Home http://www.winklebrig.org
     

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  5. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    Does anyone do pop-up cabin roofs? It seems to me that would be one approach and structurally it would be an elaboration on an open cockpit design (not obtaining any potential structural rigidly from a cabin). Underway a small sailboat may not be all hands on deck but everyone wouldn't be below either so the extra space might not be needed but at anchor the not necessarily few extra inches could really make a difference.

    Another option might be a raised deck version of something like the above Winkle Brig. No extra headroom but lots more space.
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    TS-18- This is an 18 footer I designed. A friend and I built the tooling. She had room to comfortably sit up, a V berth forward and two quarter berths plus a super comfortable cockpit. 88 were produced by T-craft boats in 1975-76. She was also quite fast.....

    TS 18 designed by DL 2.JPG TS 18 sale 2250 3-19-15  2.jpg TS 18 sale 2250 3-19-15  3.jpg TS 18 sale 2250 3-19-15.jpg
     
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  7. Tiny Turnip
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    Tiny Turnip Senior Member

    Rob Denny has used them in a number of the Harryproa designs.
     
  8. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    The cabin sides flush with the hull sides, and no cockpit, then you can go as narrow inside as your body width, and as short as having sitting space, but not enough length to lie down. This boat will be very slow, and very cramped, and very uncomfortable in a seaway, but if you wear a helmet and are strapped down in your seat, then the design itself can be very seaworthy.

    For example the Selway Fisher MICRO 8 - MINI YACHT is by those standards a long boat, since most people can almost stretched out lay down in it, and it's a seaworthy design as long as the captain can stand the beatings. And for not too long people it has a single person V-berth central in the hull, which is the most tranquil part of the ship . . ;)

    [​IMG] - [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  9. Sobell
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    Sobell Junior Member

    Daysailing and long-weekend camping on protected waters (bays, bayous, sounds). Would like it to be beachable for that reason. The interior "accommodations" woudl be for an old geezer (tall and fairly thick) and geezette (short and less thick but not thin, alas). Trailerable to access more sailing areas, so would like a wood tabernacle for lowering the mast without unstepping it. Doesn't have to be overloaded with sail area. Gaff rig okay. Small outboard motor, even a trolling motor if the boat is small enough. Moderate to hot weather, frequent hot sunshine, so a shade for cockpit. Room for a small porta-potti below. Not sure about food -- a good chest cooler for ice, cold stuff and drinks. Some kind of heating for canned chili and stuff. Electric needs minimal -- running and anchor lights, a cabin light, a cockpit light, phone charger, and power for a laptop or netbook. Learning about LEDs and longlasting battery operated lights and such now.
     
  10. Sobell
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    Sobell Junior Member

    One other thing -- when camping, campfires and grills ashore will work for cooking.
     
  11. Rurudyne
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    Rurudyne Senior Member

    I've got a serious silly-engineer streak so on looking at that I imagined three such hulls lashed together into a reverse trike trimaran (two hulls up front, one behind) with biplane sails forward and a simple open cockpit ... two "staterooms" and a galley accommodations. Lord, would it ever be ugly and probably handle like it looked....
     
  12. Sobell
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    Sobell Junior Member

    Beautiful little boat. Too bad about the complex rig and tricky to sail. If it could be simplified in some way.....
     
  13. Sobell
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    Sobell Junior Member

    I like these. I don't remember where I got the pic, Facebook, probably, so I can't credit it, alas. Love these little boats... This is somewhere in the UK I think.
     

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  14. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The little mini, whatevers may satisfy some of the requirements, but they sail like crap. It's a Dolly Parton bra thing, 5 pounds of boob in a 2 pound bra, so they never do really work well.

    As an example, the sailors directly above have a canvas poptop, which works, but makes the structure quite weak and with the top up, damn ugly IMO. The Micro 8 is about the ugliest thing I've ever seen, not to mention pretty convoluted.

    I have an 18' design that easily addresses all of your concerns, available with a choice of 4 different rigs. It has room for two full size adults in a berth below, a galley area aft of this and still has room in the cockpit, for two to lay out and get some sun. A dodger could be rigged for shade as could a boom tent, particularly on the ketch rig, where a tarp or canvas can span the two masts. It's very shoal, can take to a beach bolt upright and the centerboard is offset, so the cabin space isn't interrupted by its case. This said, This isn't the only design available for a short cruiser, there hundreds in this size range.

    [​IMG]

    Available as a ketch, sloop and as a gaffer.
     
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  15. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Right Paul (PAR), but the SOR Paul Fisher designed for demanded the little bra... ‘‘ . . . sail long distances in the smallest craft possible . . . ’’

    The original question which I've responded to asked for the smallest design possible, but later the SOR here was changed from smallest to a big tall geezer plus a smaller geezette together in bed, and was supplemented with more than just smallest (beachable, trailerable, etc.) and for protected waters, I like your Rocky design you came up with for that.

    @ Sobell, SOR = statement of requirements, more info about that is always better to discuss if your wishes are possible or what they exactly are, and to fill in your needs, here's more info about Rocky¹, and there's a build thread on these forums.

    ¹ scroll down a bit there

    Good luck !
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
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