Plastic ribs in wood boats

Discussion in 'Wooden Boat Building and Restoration' started by nautydog, Oct 31, 2007.

  1. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 478, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Microballons is a light weight filler, that's only useful in fairing applications, nothing else. It imparts no structural properties to epoxy at all and would be about the worst thing to use as a structural filler or bonding material. Silica, micro fibers, chopped strands and other materials are used in bonding and structural filling applications.

    It makes little sense to me, to incorporate plastic frames in a boat, where there will be wooden pieces attached. Sure the inert plastic will be little affected by the moisture, but it will also cause sweating where it lies against wooden elements. It will also tend to trap moisture along the contact points. To me, this sounds like an easy way to increase the potential of rot, in the other wooden components in the boat.
     
  2. skipjackbj
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 26
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 19
    Location: portland oregon

    skipjackbj Junior Member

    Fact is I am no longer corking boats or give a crap about plasic VS oak frames or what ever.
    If a person wants a wood boat repaired right. They should hire a very good ship wright. If not, they should buy a good glass boat, or stop dreaming about boats, especially wood boat altogether and just admire the nice ones at boat shows.
    I have very nice double planked boat now. Zero probs. I spend almost everyday using the boat and stay away from boat yards and drydocks!
     
  3. nautydog
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 4
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Comox BC Canada

    nautydog New Member

    I will be using uhmw polyethene plastic ribs, very strong and getting with the 2007 era.I will increase the width to 3" I had this boat out in 12' swells with 4 rooten aft ribs that decomposed under the water tanks in a lazeret that leaked for 36 years. I think that I will get my lifetime out of them. Here she is
     

    Attached Files:

  4. skipjackbj
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 26
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 19
    Location: portland oregon

    skipjackbj Junior Member

    About the only place you need to be concerned for rib strentgh is amidships. In rough water the boat is often suspended by the aft and bow sections. This ofcourse puts alot of load on the center of the boat.
    I have done alot of repairs. Full rib installs, sisters, planks ect.
    The number One item that I have not seen addressed here that is No_One for leaks is the Garboards.
    Where the Garboard rests in a notch against the keel is number one for problems, water in the bilge and ofcourse a factor in moistue turning into rot.
    Not every one agrees, but I like to keep alittle rock salt in my bilge water. When I have a boat that weeps.
     
  5. carl_shipwright
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 33
    Location: sydney

    carl_shipwright Junior Member

    The garboards may be the no.1 plank for leaks but if all his frames (australian for ribs) aft on the turn of the bilge are stuffed it won't be too long before those planks begin to move and if left untouched, leaking and you may even spring one.

    "About the only place you need to be concerned for rib strentgh is amidships." What a load of crap. If that was true why would we not increase the spacings of the ribs forward and aft and save time steaming and fitting these dozens of extra ribs when building boats? Why do owners spend countless thousands each year replacing broken ribs... usually aft, on the turn of the bilge? Because they are important. Thats why they are there in the first place.

    "In rough water the boat is often suspended by the aft and bow sections. This ofcourse puts alot of load on the center of the boat." True. But on the longitudinal members such as the engine bearers, stringers, sheer clamps and particularly the keel. Not so much the ribs.

    Finally I agree with par 100% on the plastic ribs issue as well as laminating with microballoons. Only thing I wish to add is that in this case you will probably have to laminate the frames rather than to steam because it will be the only way to get the new frame in without cutting into the deck.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. skipjackbj
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 26
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 19
    Location: portland oregon

    skipjackbj Junior Member

    Wannabe Shipwrights

    Fact: You are big on input for labor that you have never experianced.

    Fact: I doubt you have any labor experiance or ability that would sustain you beyond 5 hours in any kind of serious, physical demanding situation.

    Fact: It is very doubtful that you have any experiance working on boats or anything other then your key board thru Google.
     
  7. carl_shipwright
    Joined: Sep 2007
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 33
    Location: sydney

    carl_shipwright Junior Member

    That's "experienced", by the way and I am a fully qualified shipwright. I did my apprenticeship at a traditional yard on Sydney harbour doing this type of restoration work every day. I come from the Halvorsen family, Australia's most famous wooden boat builders.

    Fact: I doubt you have any labor experiance or ability that would sustain you beyond 5 hours in any kind of serious, physical demanding situation.

    How many boats have you faired? That's physical work last I checked, work which I have done many times. 8 hours a day. I work 8 hours a day, 6 days a week on wooden boats. How many hours a day do you?

    Fact: It is very doubtful that you have any experiance working on boats or anything other then your key board thru Google.

    I don't know why you have chosen to turn this thread into a personal attack on me, I was merely pointing out for the owner of the vessel in question the errors in your advice. This a boat building forum for us to help each other out, not a playground. This will be my last post in this thread.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. skipjackbj
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 26
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 19
    Location: portland oregon

    skipjackbj Junior Member

    Sorry

    Sorry,

    I re-read your thread. I think I was responding to something or someone elce on anthother matter.

    PS, here in the NW USA, we also call Ribs "Frames" So, I do not think Frames is exactly Austrailian.

    I think you will agree on one thing. There are so many variations of wood hulls, designers trying differant things. Thus, the problems do follow many of the stress points on a wood hull.
    Some are more pronounced then others.
    Some hulls are over built, or underbuilt. Many wood boats never see a running sea, but rather only a mild river or small lake.
     

  9. Brands01
    Joined: Nov 2006
    Posts: 102
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 20
    Location: Sydney

    Brands01 Senior Member

    Great to hear you're keeping the family tradition alive Carl! My boat is a Halvorsen 25', and I'm giving her a full restoration - I bought her with the plastic ribs already installed and decided to leave them in - your forebears are probably rolling in their graves :(
     
    1 person likes this.
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.