Planning to build a chesapeake 20' sharpie - any comments

So it is not the trailering as such that will cause the main problems, but the drying out that will occur if the boat spends prolonged times on a trailer. Which I can understand after experiences of getting clinker boats to take up after a winter refit.

Lots to think about. I guess if I went for a ply bottom, I would have consider the twist that the ply would have to take at the bow and also whether or not to change the keel material due to recommendations I have read regarding epoxy not sticking to oak. I have copies of both of Parker's books which hopefully will help.

Giles

 

This is a 20 sharpie, with a skipjack bottom , cross planked on it. This shows what I did in seating and thwart. Its worked out great. The bottom is cross planked, and i have four positions in the open centerboard trunk, and when in the down position, I use an insert, with a small bungy, with an offset that fits nicely into the slot, staying in place. I have also placed a small jam cleat, since the photo, to hold the centerboard in the half down position, when needed, at the top of the support.

The boat is cypress planked, and sits on a trailer when not in use. The method I used in construction is a bit different than the old fellows which is for another day. .

 

Sharpie-Giles
I respect your desire to build in the old traditional way. If you are building for the purpose of museum display then you must do it the old way. If you intend to actually use the boat, then for heavens sake opt for the modern material. Par has given you exceptional advice. Do yourself a favor and build in plywood. If you can afford to use something like okume to bs1088 standards you'll have a boat to be proud of. It will have much higher resale value than a leaky, hopeless, cross planked, dinosaur.

More ! The ply boat will be lighter, stronger, cleaner, drier, and probably perform better. I spent a little time cruising on a Bolger Black Skimmer sharpie built of the ply suggested above. It was indeed a pleasure to sail. A week with the Bolger type sharpie made me a believer in simple boats. His designs depart somewhat from the New Haven or Chesapeake variety but the departures are well proven.

I doubt that you'll be much impressed with the reality of rowing a 20 foot sharpie of the traditional type. You will be rowing while the boat is in upright position. Sharpies have a lot of wetted surface in that attitude. A cross planked one would really be a chore to row because of the inevitable corrugated surface created by those planks. These boats are startlingly fast under sail when they are heeled to about 15 degrees more or less. They are not particularly fast when standing up. When heeled correctly the wetted surface decreases markedly and the shape of the immersed part resembles a stramline similar to a wing section. At low angles of heel, say five degrees the wet surface actually increases to more than the zero degree amount and the immersed shape is not at all pretty. Lee helm is a probability at low angles.

The most attractive feature of the sharpie genre is the ability to sail in very skinny water. The Black Skimmer would actually sail in less than 24 inches of water. Other sharpies can do the same, particularly if you opt for lee boards rather than centerboard.

You won't go wrong with one of Parkers plan sets, or Bolgers. I expect that buying a set of plans would ultimately save you time and money.

Best of luck with your project.

Gene

 

I think the intent of most forums dealing with inquiries, is to first and formost address and reply to the best of our knowledge on topic, and then offer up alternatives, reinforced with reasons. Many hulls, built this way, never see any museums, but are built just for the reason of personal enjoyment and satisfaction, as only two reasons why an inquiry comes about in these boards. There is a difference in sailing the types of hull construction, too, or has been my exposure to the two contrasting building methods and materials.The bow is the real issue in vee hulls. BUt some of the older sharpies are strickly flat bottom with the rockers, no difference than many of the rowing dories. A hard chine hull will row a bit different than the round bottom rocker style hull. Thats just the nature of design.

 

Oyster, it's good to hear from you my friend. Hoping all is well (or better on the home front), in any case, happy to see your log in again.

I enjoy file planked hulls. They can be built within an inch or two of the materials list for bottom planks and have a casual air about them most don't understand. I grew up on the Chesapeake and have rather fond memories of file planked power and sail craft, none of which made it into a museum, in spite of my being form St. Michaels.

Isn't a Santa Cruz 50, just a big sharpie with a modern Bermudian rig, where did the Laser get it's concepts from . . .

Messabout, I'm less then an hour away from you. Sharpies row very well and were for several generations, until power plants put an end to the need and required replacement of the bottom planks with fore and aft strakes.

 

Thanks PAR, I figured I would dip my oar in this water for a bit. The net has a way of highlighting some of the worse in folks, for some reason.

 

I truly understand Oyster, I got attacked by a piece of destructive software last week and a design, I've got a couple hundred hours into, has it's files corrupted. I'm hoping I can reassemble the work, but it's not looking good.

 

Oyster thanks for the photos

Oyster looks very nice. Good to hear from the non-ply view on the world. is the boat a double ender? If so it would be great to see some more views. Due to not making any real progress recently, family life getting in the way, I have been 3D modelling a number of flat bottom boats. And I am now reconsidering the vee bottom double ender, as I am not sure about its looks and it is going to be more complex and expensive than the flat bottom ones I am looking at.

You mention yours is cross planked. Does it leak like a sieve? Does all the caulking fall out when you trialer it? Does it distort into a washboard? those are some of the criticisms that I have heard of cross planking.

Just to prevent another set replies from people trying to convince me to build with plywood, I have built with ply and I would like to learn how to build with wood, and unforunately that means that I need to use, umm... wood. I have chosen flat or vee bottom as it seems the easiest way to start. If that means that I am not going to get the best sailing boat in the world thats ok, cause if I wanted the best sailing boat I would go and build it out of vac bagged, carbon/foam.

Thanks

Giles

 

As you can see, the seams shows a bit of paint crack, but the type of construction method I used, makes it almost as ideal as can be. I have has zero problems with this particular hull sitting on a trailer living in a four seasons area of the eastern U.S. I will later go into the process, if you truely desire, as it worked for me. What I did, really works selectively, and also depends on the type of wood chosen for the job. This also changes with the area. So its important for me to know your choices, and I hope that I can have a better reply and not waste your time and cause any harm or grief down the road.

 

Wow! What a fantastically heavy looking hull. Not necessarily in a bad way. How does it stand up to a good breeze? I'll bet it rides nice. It's looks STRONG. I'll be sure to get out of your way if I see to coming. Is that the actual thickness of the plank on the forefoot or did it get faired back. I like the lap joint on the sides, too.

I'm curious about the whole trailer issue. Does your boat spend extended time in the water or is it a "dry" boat that spends only short periods of time in the water. If a boat like yours doesn't spend a lot of time in the water, it's not going to soak up a lot of water and and can be built tighter(?). Looking at your photos, it looks like you used something like 5200 (or maybe some other kind of caulk) on your seams?

 

Actually the hull will ghost along at almost no wind. The entry planking, if you notice the tops, is done two ways, one with wide strips fanning out at it goes aft, creating a stair step affect, and the shaped to fit. With another way, it requires flat planks, double thickness, and one end shaped with a hatchet angle one way, and on the other end, its hatches out the other way. Its hard to explain in type, especially if you have never experienced the fanning out in a short span, and shallow vee. Tommorrow I have some other shots. The first plank shows the thickest in width, but its had not has any shaping to it, like the ones running aft, that created the stair step affect. The finished weight of that hull is around 780 lbs, I carry 185 sq ft of sail area, with a four foot centerboard. No ballast, just the small amount of downhaul weight in the board. The caulk is PL Window, Door and SIding Sealant, 3.88 a tube. The key is in the seam preperation and application of the caulk, and the placement of the planking "just right"

I take it that you are not familiar with red cedar, or you would not call the hull a "tank" The complete hull averages 3/4" thick, and framing is 3/4" x 1 1/4" not including the keel and false keelson.

Proper choices of lumber grains, stable lumber, and complete and thorough priiming and finish work, goes a long ways for stabilizing the hull further for this method and standard that this boat is built to.



Theres something about talking to folks that snicker at the hull and its build. I document every process and every step, and log every trip, showing also my down time between trips. When I wave big motor yachts, dragging half speed, thinking they are doing me a favor, by me in the ICW, they all throw up their hands back at me, and then rush to the sides of the flying bridges , galking in amazement and wait for me to turn over. I look foward to you moving out of my way, too. Take your choice, Its all yours. Pick your pleasure.

 

It's hard to tell the wood species from the photo. It looked like it could have been southern yellow pine. Also looked like the hull sides were 2x material. Guess I need to have my eyes checked.

I hope to have the opportunity to get out of your way some day.

Sorry, Sharpie. Didn't mean to hijack the thread.

 

Actually the bottom is very dry cypress, chosen specifically for the job for this trailerable boat, The hull sides is western red cedar. The hull sides, also have what is known as a chine installed where the joint of the side and the bottom comes together. [placed in laymens terms.]

In boatbuilding, in sharp entries, there need to also be a transition joint, which shows in this shot, just aft of where the steps stop, that the bottom planking will overlap the sides. If you look across the keel you can also see the joint between the chine plank and the hull side planking. Also look at the sails bellowed out with just a hint of wind , slowly pushing the hull along, with just a small ripple on the water at the stern. Thank you for your attention to details.

 

Kind of like this. Not the best picture.

(Just aft of where the spray rail changes from mahogany.)

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4004&d=1126577077

 

Sharpie- Giles;
It seems that Par and Messabout are being a bit too critical of your planned build. My first reply was intended to encourage you, not to find fault. I apologize for not having done so with suitable diplomacy. I suspect Pars' replies were intended to be constructive as well.

Having thought about the traditional build method for a while, I can recall some of the romance involved. About an eon ago I built some sharpie like skiffs that were done in the then acceptable way. These boats were ubiquitous in Florida. They were generally called Port Ritchy skiffs. Constructed invariably of Florida cypress which was plentiful and cheap. But that was before the cypress stands were all removed to make way for condos. These were very serviceable boats that were kept in the water and lasted for years. They were heavy as the cypress would soak up a spectacular amount of water. I cannot remember any of them being trailered.

Oyster, your boat is a jewel. The pictures suggest that it is rugged enough to, not only withstand but, win the battle in a collision with those Tupperware boats. Given the twisted entry of your boat, I think that it is likely to be described as a skipjack rather than sharpie. Either way it's a joy to behold.

I am in the process of building a small skiff with the general lines of the Port Ritchey, sharpie like. It'll use plywood and have non traditional lap strake sides. My object is to make it as light as possible while maintaining reasonable structural integrity. Were it not for the requirement of light weight I might consider the old fashioned way as well.

Once again I did not intend to assault your judgement. Keep us up to date on your project.

Gene