Planet Solar catamaran with sails

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Red Dwarf, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    masalai masalai

    Hi Timothy,
    Thanks for your reply, Although my research was what I felt as, "effective and diligent", there are some factors I did miss initially and became aware of in rout planning. - - - What if on my planned passage from Cairns to Samarai Island, - some 480 miles, and the daylight hours do not fully recharge the batteries (heavily overcast and raining), to be ready for night passage parts of the run - (48 hours minimum travel time at 10 knots in open ocean so I will also need the radar at night... - So I bought a small genset that has the potential to deliver some 26 or more amps at 30vDC to the main bank... also that region gets extensive periods of "doldrums" interspersed close to shore with occasional strong thundery squalls...
     
  2. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    The 'clean green" composition of solar cells is well and truly negated by the dirty, expensive and toxic process around the lifecycle of batteries.

    It makes diesel engines look positively angelic, especially if you can burn renewable oils in the diesel.
     
  3. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday 'masa' - (off-subject - - coming-down in 'wheelie-bins' here & 21* @ 0900 hrs)

    Now to - topic. - Sir-masa - (said very seriously & with much respect) your understanding of Timothy's - design fantasy is very admirable - that must be a great humourous & relaxing interlude - from all your last minute- high improtance - efforts to get the magnificient 'GNO' ready for departure - on such a long journey - some 2300 ks - Brisbane to Cairns - through the middle of The Great Barrier Reef - - which in-itself - is a large task {having done that trip a number of times} & that's with absolutely everything - going the 'very-best' for you - {which it WILL} then there's the trip from Cairns to Samarai, PNG which I estimate is 550 to 600 ks [straight-line] - 650 ks (565 kts pr hr) - under-keel - - now at a estimated - - 'speed-over-ground' of 8 kts - that's approx 70 hrs & maybe slow down by 5 hrs - so as to make land-fall in daylight hours.

    Timothy my co-Canuck - I wish you well - however do pay much attention to the 'facts' that are being put forward by 'masa' & not keep walking around the real-worlds learnable 'facts'. I'd forgotten how little sun there is - in 'Eskimo-land' but I quickly remembered just this morning. Usdable 'sun-shine is ofter less than 4 hrs per day & also less than 20 hrs per week & that is in the tropics where 'masa' & I live.The shining sun is of not much value before 0830 hrs nor after 1530 hrs - even as close to the equator as we are.

    '
    masa sure has it right. A vessel - MUST HAVE a reliable source of - generate power. Even here in the tropics - you can NEVER rely on solar &/or wind - only - as that will lead to total disaster.

    You can not - with any degree of - self-survival' travel across the seas in this area - without radar-on - not if you wish to live. Yes I know people have done it - people also have run across very busy highways in peak traffic time - BUT - why would you. The very best 'insurance policy' will not bring you back to life.

    Radar, lights, nav equipment & vessel 'safe-running' equipment - consume man, many, many more times the power of solar/wind can produce - @ night-time - with no wind - with adverse current (up to 10 kts - in many areas) - pouring rain - & - trying to traverse a very busy (1000 ships in 24 hrs) marine shipping lanes.

    Required for extra safety (that's me - big chicken - I am) but then I'm still alive - after over 40 yrs of playing 'out-there' - in-the-middle - of all that fun.
    Big radar - c/w AIS (send & recieve) 48 miles range (which @ a closing speed of 40 kts) is only just enough safety room - especially with 6 big (30 kts plus) tankers are approaching form - every which way - in the dark/rain/adverse tide - conditions. [thank goodness 'radars are 40% less cost in Singapore - cause I sure can't afford 1 here in OZ]

    'masa' - I make Samarai - some 450 kt. miles [which would likely translate to approx 564 kt. mi - under the keel] & thus even more reason for you 'very wise' decission for electrical power generating source.

    Sussing you leave Cairns Inlet - at say - 'piccaninny-dawn' - clear the 'reef' & be into the coastal 'Coral-Sea' @ 0630 hrs - heading close to NNE - gets you through the 'outer reef' just north of Norman Reef (& a reasonalby good 'sea-bed' area - so not to bad - a sea-state) - - that should give you until 1800 or 1900 hrs with good visability - which may well get you farther NE than - Casties-North Horn-South Horn - 1/ depending on the wind & sea state & you may wish to consider navigating - either to the west or the east - of the 'rum-line' depending of the 'set' of the waves & sea condition. As I don't have an - up-to-date copy of the - current/winds/time of travel - transparencie-overlays - for your trip - I'm sure you would be able to choose the most comfortable & thus economical way to get there.

    Bloody-hell - wish I was a 'stowaway' or much younger & pretty - could cook & look nice in appropriate 'tropical attire'. Very sadly - just not the case ! ! !

    Wish you much luck. Ciao, james
     
  4. Luc Vernet
    Joined: May 2004
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    Luc Vernet Senior N.A.

    So true, butalas hidden away by the "solar" industry and all what gravitates around it! Green sells well, no matter how dark that green maybe!

    ....but on this I would not fully agree. Renewable, yes, but at what cost? At the cost of millions of hectares of forest and many beauties of nature we see on Animal Planet be soon things of the past, or of arable land once used for food, making the price of what feeds us (do we drink, eat bio-fuel?) rise to heights unaffordable by more and more!

    Sail, or stay home!
     
  5. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    masalai masalai

    Hi Silver,
    The plan is to get to Cairns, - which should be OK, and delays due to local weather on route to be expected - I have planned 24 overnight stops... - All up in excess of 910 nMi (my shorthand for Nautical miles) to Cairns and then a minimum of 480 nMi to Samarai... - If I decide to continue on I will be looking for crew whilst at Cairns as I will not go without crew... 3 people on 8 hour rotation and a bit over 48 hours hang near the outer reef till dark then head off at dusk? at 10 knots should be some 70 + miles from Samarai at dawn on the second day... I have not checked out my detail charts for Cairns and Samarai yet...

    The website that looks at shipping AIS positions globally - has the ASTERIA in Cairns, BULGU heading for Mackay @ 9.6 knots, South Island VTS (manned navaid off N end of Hinchenbrook Island), PELORUS IS VTS off Lucinda, and 8 vessels near Townsville (anchored) and a SARV ROTARY RESCUE making 22 knots heading for base in Townsville...... - - http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/default.aspx?centerx=30&centery=25&zoom=2&level1=140 - - - - Quite quiet in the northern regions...

    Looking around, seems some quite small yachts have AIS has the price come down recently?
     
  6. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Hay - 'masa' - nice & informative post. THANKS from a lot of us, I'm sure.

    Nice easy - no over rush no die - program - great. Very well thought-out & planned ! ! !

    Don't know about current price of a 'total' package for Radar c/w AIS - in/out - but 2 years ago - a 'top-shelf' system - c/w all the whistles, buttons, lights & variable rings was something like $8K AUD - whsle in Mlbrn (which I could get at) - also - - WHICH - my life is worth - - however the same code # available - fitted [foc] was down to about $3.7K AUD - & as the required 'row-boat' is in SE Asia - I thought for that price fully installed - was just about what I could afford. That would buy - you a whole lot of 'cno' fuel & me some new sails. So win - win all around.

    Like your style man - keep it nice & light/tight & fun. Ciao, james - Winds-astern & moderate seas. jj
     
  7. masalai
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    masalai masalai

    @ years ago an AIS RECEIVER (did not transmit your position) was around Au$500 (I think - even the receiver was too much as beyond VHF reception / receiving stations it is suspected many ships turn of their AIS if passing through foreign waters Pirates and countries not particularly to the flag of the vessel or its crew... You will note that globally there are big holes where no ships seem to exist - The reporting signal is on the maritime VHF band somewhere??? - don't really care either as to listen to beeps and such I would need a dedicated receiver Cost even more than a dedicated receiver...

    http://www.chsmith.com.au/Products/GME-AISR120-AIS-Receiver.html needs other stuff to plug in to read the data,

    http://www.chsmith.com.au/Products/Digital-Yacht-ANT200-SMART-AIS-Receiver.html or this which seems even better... but still needs another chart-plotter and several breeds are mentioned...

    - - - but the one I saw in Perth had a screen and would position the ships relative to your boat... like this but cheaper - http://www.milltechmarine.com/Vesper-Marine-AIS-WatchMate-RX_p_142.html
     
  8. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Interesting thoughts,...perhaps you could post more of these thoughts and explainations over here? ...a bit more 'on topic'...
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/square-rig-variation-30031.html
    I hope to add some more thoughts and sketches there soon.
     
  9. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Keep in mind that there was a 'board' arrangement designed to be used on Maltese Falcon that never got installed. This might have surely improved her windward capabilities as well as some stability gains (I believe it was a weighted board)
     
  10. Timothy
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Timothy Senior Member

    I omitted to say that this is a day sailor with a long range. The idea is to trailer it from cruising ground to cruising ground. It is not intended to cross oceans except in a container. It is indeed as of yet a concept ,or fantasy if you like .As I spend most of my time in Thailand with my wife and child, I thought rather than sailing or shipping my boat to Thailand I might build one there. So I began to try and come up with something that would satisfy my needs. I have had my current boat for over thirty years and lived or cruised aboard her for most of that time. if the truth be known mostly day sailing. Once when giving a tour of my boat to a friend, the five year old daughter of my then significant other pointed out the aft cabin and said "this is Mummy's room . She then proceeded to the front cabin and said " This is my room . She then pointed below to the engine room and said "And Tim lives down there" .I don't like diesels . I am not a save the planet kind of guy. When I said clean I meant me. Brian I will do that.
     

  11. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    I agree - using arable land for fuel growth is not a good idea,

    But you may like to look up the work being done on aelginate (algae) source of oils. These do not require arable lands. A desert the size of Belgium is big enough to grow all the Oil requirements for Europe for example .

    I see this as the best bet for future fuel requirements
     
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