Phinisi ships

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by sailor305, May 23, 2012.

  1. sailor305
    Joined: May 2012
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    sailor305 future cat builder

    I found an advertisement offering a 20 year old 72' Phinisi under 100k.
    Looking for some advise what to focus on prior and on viewing.
    Thank you
     
  2. bertho
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    Location: asean archipelago

    bertho bertho

    keep you money under your matress or do a nice donation for poor kids...:) !
    many 1 year olds "phinisi" are already good for scrap... so..20 years later..
    cheer's
    bertho
     
  3. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday 'bert' "many" ?? More real info please !! What's wrong ?? where is it wrong ?? How many Pinisi's around that are - of some age ?? Am I to believe that you are in the know & have such ability & trailing ?? Ciao, james - anxiously awaiting your answer !!
     
  4. thudpucker
    Joined: Jul 2007
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    thudpucker Senior Member

    From Google:
    The Pinisi (Often spelled Phinisi) is a traditional Indonesian two masted sailing ship. It was mainly built by the Konjo tribe, a sub-ethnic group of Bugis-Makassar ...
     
  5. bertho
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    bertho bertho

    gents,
    Local indonesian boat are often (especially if built for foreigner) very poorly built due to many reason: is no more suitable wood in sulawesi, the bring the wood from kalimantan (borneo) in short plank, i saw many 80ft and more built with 10 ft planks !! , no fastening, only dowel, what is ok if properly done but most of the time, they use not ( and as the foreign guy will pay for, they will local steel bolt.. sometime galvanized..
    wood used should be the kayu ulin (bilian or ironwood) to resist to local hungry torredo and other marine worms... the density of this wood is almost 950 to 1100 kg per cubic meter... ( yes this wood sank ! ) so, small boat will be really heavy displacement, if not ulin, they can use otehr local wood who will not resist to fungus or torredo worms , including the local white teak, kayu jati putih , who start to rot before you launch the boat...
    they built thousand of large pinisi (generic term used now for local boat..) some still ok, some completely rotten , all very flexible (no diagonal stiffener or bulkhead or knee..)
    I only know few of them built under foreign boatbuilder scrutinity and in still in good shape, but they cost almost the price of a "real" boat .(see silolona for example..)...unfortunatly, is no magic receipe on this field..you get what you paid for. so be very careful before to take decision to invest money on a old pinisi. he can cost you a fortune to go nowhere with....
    all the best
     
  6. Luc Vernet
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Vietnam

    Luc Vernet Senior N.A.

    Salut Bertrand!

    So, you also wander around this forum and generously warn some against severe delusions! Hahaha! Going to make you busy!!!!!

    This legend seems to be effectively still alive that dream boats can be acquired at a ridiculous price in some "miracle" countries, building mega-yachts at the cost of a canoe...

    Here, in Vietnam, just like Indonesia, the major problem is the supply nowadays of timber suitable for traditional construction techniques. Older boat may be still reasonably good, though, but are not nearly always unsuitable for conversion into any kind of pleasure vessel. On top of that: what about a boat that has been working or twenty years, carrying enormous cargo up to deck level, whose fastening has gone loose, of which some planks (or many...) are already rotten, eaten, and which were originally built for....a twenty years lifetime!

    An exception, though, are the hundred years old engine-less river barges, build in "Sao" or "Lim" wood, and that are still today a common sight in the Red River of Mekong delta, pushed by some cute little wooden tugs, and carrying some 40 ton of rice...or any other cargo. But these would be totally unsuitable for any other use, cannot go to sea, get considerably damaged the moment an engine get fitted in them, and cannot sail either....so what???
     
  7. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    Every cloud has a silver lining, the teredo ship-worm is reputed to be very good eating.
     
  8. bertho
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    bertho bertho

    Hi Luc,
    in holidays during the raining season here in phuket...have time to kill.... just sad to see again some people in trouble with a collapsed dream..
    cheer's
    all the best with you project there...
    bertho

    www.fusionschooner.blogspot.com
     
  9. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday 'bertho' I read you comment but for the very life of me - I don't see how that answers or helps 'sailor305' or anyone else for that matter.

    Mr. E - High cobber - you got any good recipes & what sauces I might try ???

    Now to both 'Bertho' & 'luc' - - We seem to be having a problem with this subject.

    Sailor 305 - quite clearly - asked if anyone had some advice of what to focus on when inspecting a 'phinisi (pinisi).

    Neither of you two have contributed one positive suggestion for him to look at when inspecting the vessel.

    'bertho' you've - quite clearly -rubbished 'phinisi' building - as a whole - & I'm sure if I owned one - I'd be rather annoyed by your over-generalization that a very large proportion of them are sub-standard & will fall apart soon. I find this very negative, quite alarming, completely unnecessary & it doesn't answer the question asked. I do notice that there are several 'phinisi's for sale & at very large sums of money - are you saying - that they are unseaworthy ?? - that they are all going to 'fall-apart' ?? that they are all under 10 years old &/or will fall-apart very soon ???

    Just what is it that you're saying or implying ???

    I'm also looking at a 'pinisi' to purchase - for both social & personal use in SE Asian waters.

    All your valuable knowledge will be very gratefully recieved & valued by me when I also go to look at a boat for personal inspection.

    Thanks, Ciao, james.
     
  10. sailor305
    Joined: May 2012
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    sailor305 future cat builder

    going thoroughly through your posts it seems to me advisable to look for an older Phinisi ship instead of a newer construction.
    It seems to me quite comparable to the Turkish Gulets, where over the last two decades
    poorly and non durable construction appeared especially at the region of Bodrum with its
    mass production.
    Firstly, they had been build at a time good quality wood was available.
    Secondly, the hull should be made of ironwood with full length planks.
    Thirdly, the ship shouldn't be longer than 80' to achieve suitable sailing abilities.

    Thanks to everybody for you input so far.
     
  11. bertho
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    bertho bertho

    James,
    no alarming..just advise to be very careful with pinisi construction.
    Fly to Denpasar, Bali, go to sanur/ turtle island and do your own assessment. It's number of them on mooring in this area, if you are lucky, you will see some nice pinisi, built almost as per standard.. but you will find for sure number of abandoned project there..this make me sad.
    some fact : the way a Indonesian boat is built is special, its planking first, the plank are bend and link together with thousand of small dowel (one every 2/3 inch) , they do assembly of the planking first on the keel, and add reinforcement progressively, ribs are bolted or also secure with dowel later , the complete new boat remain very flexible, generally the backbone/keel are very light, only few knee, not often bulkhead no diagonal stiffenner.
    to seal the plank, a special bark are inserted between the two planks during the construction, almost no efficient caulking can be done after due to the small dowels connecting the plank together.
    when this assembly take some age and movement, the hull become completely flexible at this time, it's very difficult or impossible to fix any leak. even if the wood remain good..at the harbour, leaks can be reasonable, at sea, just keep pumping...
    I don't talk about the too little space for efficient propeller, the undersize of the shaft, the undersize of the rudder stock ...
    all the best

    rgds
    bertho
    www.fusionschooner.blogspot.com
     
  12. Venetian
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Singapore

    Venetian New Member

    Liveabord in SEA

    Hi guys, you all sound very knowledgeable of SEA water conditions...
    How do you see the idea of bringing a liveabord in wood from HK to SG ?
    Is there a concern that different water conditions may damage the wood?

    Bertho, do you know anything about construction quality of liveabord in HK ?

    Thank you!
     
  13. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday'Vene' No where enough info from you to be able to make an 'informed' comment.

    Stop being to 'cute' please - so where is "SG" ???

    There is always "a concren" about different locations. 'Marine growth' is the first one that comes to my mind, what is it that comes to yours ???

    Ciao, james
     
  14. Venetian
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Location: Singapore

    Venetian New Member


    Hey James,

    SG is Singapore.. (sorry, I thought this thread was read mainly in South East Asia)

    Well.. I didn't give much info because I do not have them.
    I just see that in Hong Kong live aboard is common practice. Here in SG there are just a couple of Bondway (in fiberglass), and I was wondering if it is because the equatorial sea is particularly aggressive on wood.
    If not, then there should be plenty of shipyards in Riau (Indonesia) to be able to support ordinary maintanence at a reasonable cost.

    ...I thought to share this thought with other members more experienced than me.

    cheers,
    Paolo
     

  15. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Great to hear from you ! ! !

    Hey there Paolo. How are you ??? Great to see you in here - & welcome to our 'crazy mob'(Australian for - bunch or guys or people) - & asking questions that's what we are all supposted to be - doing in here - - asking questions, for sure.

    You'll need to spell everything out - for at least 6 or 8 different nationalities - as there are that many of us in here.

    Well here I am - - a 70, male - semi-retired yacht builder/repairer/designer - - many ocean cruises & races - trying to buy a 42' vessel in SE Asia - which is where I am going to live & enjoy sailing for the next 15 years - if I live that long. Your question - is very valid - as I also would like to own & live on a 'Phinisi' while I go 'speeding around the race track' in a very fast multihull. I don't know I have the answers to you questions but I do have an opinion about what you are tlking about - cause I've spent 6 years doing all the homework that I can on the very subject that you are talking about.

    Talk to us - all of us - & I'm sure we can at the very least - give you something to think about. Ciao & have great 'shui' , james
     
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