Petrol = gasoline = fuel storage questions.

It doesnt matter America is at war with terrorism. It has to cut back that 1 billion a day --its political not economy or green.

 

except the US is importing ethanol - not sure from where but dont forget muslims invented alcohol

 

Brasil.

 

I don't like ethanol either, but that particular claim is another fairy tale being peddled for political purposes.

 

You can grow 80 tonnes of sugar beet on a hectare.
1 tonnes of beet will yield 100 litres of alcohol.
1 hectare would yield 8000 litres of alcohol.
A single 747 flight would use 200,000 litres of ethanol.
You would need 25 hectares per flight.
You would need to grow this beet, harvest it, mash it, and brew and distill 2,000,000 litres of "10% beer" to make enough fuel for a single flight.
2 flights per day for 300 days a year, would require 15,000 hectares per 747 per year.
Over 1000 747's are in service. So we need 15,000,000 hectares of sugar beet just for 747's.
In other words we would be wasting 2,400,000,000,000 litres of 5% beer a year.
This seems a shame.

 

That makes 25 hectares taken away from food production for just one flight. Another fine example of the elitists making life difficult for poor people. A square mile of land devoted to alcohol would only fuel 10 flights.

 

Is economy of ethanol production in the US a free market approach ? or is the economy of ethanol based on subsidy ?

 

Subsidy, or at least a good substitute.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/ethanol-subsidies-not-gone-just-hidden-little-better

"Deficit hawks, environmentalists, and food processors are celebrating the expiration of the ethanol tax credit. This corporate handout gave $0.45 to ethanol producers for every gallon they produced and cost taxpayers $6 billion in 2011. So why did the powerful corn ethanol lobby let it expire without an apparent fight? The answer lies in legislation known as the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), which creates government-guaranteed demand that keeps corn prices high and generates massive farm profits. Removing the tax credit but keeping the RFS is like scraping a little frosting from the ethanol-boondoggle cake."

http://www.api.org/news-and-media/n...peal-unworkable-renewable-fuels-standard.aspx

 

I still dont understand the value of an acre of corn flakes or an acre of ethanol ?

I can understand a gov subsidy to create a new industry...the Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) seems resonable . Refineres wont spend money if they cant calculate demand. So the government garentees demand and creates stability

Then what ?

What is the real price of ethanol. Is it economic for famers and refiners if left to market. or are corn flakes better

 

Stop blaming stuff like that on mythical 'elitists.' Put the blame where it belongs: on the farmers who hire lobbyists to push ethanol subsidies in Washington, and the whoring senators and representatives who vote for those subsidies.

Ethanol does work in Brazil. They jump-started production with subsidies, then started letting the market take over. On the other hand, Brazil has millions of acres of sugar cane fields and an abundance of cheap labor. They aren't switching from food production to ethanol, like midwest farmers are doing -- farmers who mostly happen to be conservative Republicans, not tree-hugging liberal Democrats.

Ironically the success of their lobbying, coupled with a severe drought that cut corn production, has led to a tripling of Brazilian ethanol imports. So much for the claims that ethanol would help us become energy independent....

 

I prefer corn flakes, preferably con fresas y leche. Both of which also require farmland to produce.

 

If the farmer, the brewer, the distiller, the hauler, the airport, the maintenance hanger, Boeing, the travel agents, the insurers, the caterers, taxis, buses, cleaners, not forgetting all of their staff, and everyone else I have forgotten in making a single flight happen, ran all of their vehicles and generated all of their electricity from alcohol it would be much more than 25 hectares per flight.
What a waste of beer!

 

Apologies to Manie for deviating off course. Boat gasoline thread. Manie, are you adding wings to your boat? :idea::?:

 

I still dont understand. Corn flakes or ethanol. Are these trade distorting subsidies permanent or only short term to stimulate a market.

Does a farmer review oil futures or corn flake futures when making the decision for next years crop ?