Peterson 1/4 Ton to save?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Bluewhale, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. Bluewhale
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    Location: Bay Pointe, Ca

    Bluewhale New Member

    Hi. I bought a Doug Peterson 25' 1/4 Ton ( it turned out ) 2 years ago from a co-worker who was leaving the states. It's been mostly docked for these two years with physical problems keeping me on land. Recently those problems worsened, so instead of moving it closer to my home to work on it instead I find myself looking to donate it.

    Or sell it. One reason I bought the boat was it's uniqueness. I've also got a '53 9 window Chevy 3/4 ton which the Atomic Energy apparently owned, as well as an '53 M35 cargo truck converted into a brush fire truck a local township owned and used for about 10 years before deciding they were replacing the brakes too often. Googling this boat brought me here.

    Would anyone be interested in it, sort of rescuing it from the donation pit? Donation value I plan to claim is what I paid 2 years ago, $3500. However I'd much rather have it go to someone who would TLC it to death, maybe even race it again.

    It's currently in the Marina Bay Yacht Harbor in Richmond, Ca. Pictures and the few specs I've been able to find if you but ask.

    Thanks

    Paul
     
  2. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    OK, please post the photos and any info you have.
     
  3. Bluewhale
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    Location: Bay Pointe, Ca

    Bluewhale New Member

    The boat was owned by a young engineer from the Basque region of Spain. He was crazy about his beautiful Cuban bride, his infant daughter, and sailing. I'm not sure in which order. He bought this boat here in the Bay Area, Ca. The inboard motor, likely (?) an atomic 4 had been yanked out and two large batteries thrown in there in it's place. A Suzuki 4hp outboard placed on the stern on a lift plate instead.

    He could not tell me when the batteries died ( he owned it for 5 years before he wife, with a doctorate in traffic management, got a great job in Switzerland and they had to move in 2010 ) but die they did. The fact that he did not notice made me laugh: They lived in new condos just over the marina.. 5 min walk to the boat. Whenever time would allow, day or night, he would slip down and out. Light, no lights, just a puff of wind which we usually have at the least. He kept the boat clean and orderly... but did not make any improvements on it. It was for SAILING, period.

    I pulled the dead batteries and still have them. I had researched going with Torquedo a year + ago but lost my job. Then physical problems brought on from an injury in 1986 returned. I THOUGHT I could still sail, which is why I bought the boat. It seemed rare, perhaps even historied. And I just like it.

    But last week when I hired a local fellow to bring it over to McAvoy Harbor from Richmond I helped him as I could for about an hour Wed and Thursday prep the boat for the journey. And have been pretty much bed bound since then taking extra Percocetes and laying in a position that helps reduce problems. If a little bit of sheet work can cause that reaction I really am dreaming of being able to sail again. Thus two years of berthing the boat become a donation to a higher cause.

    But the boat might still be saved, IF it is what I think it might be. Title is paid up through 2013. It needs sheets ( ropes? ) and needs a lot of repacking of the deck mounted hardware. The sails are OK: no holes but yes some stains. Most of the photos I send were from when I got the boat but aside from normal muck which I clean of every month or three it's about the same now as then. There ARE leaks which I have to pump out in the rainy season.. but all fresh water. They do cause rusty stains on the inner walls where the go through the deck hardware tho. To my knowledge there is one spinnaker, two main sails? one or two jibs... An anchor or two. Fresh water on board.

    I'm offering this more as a collector to collectors of another ilk. : ]
    If the math makes sense to me I'll consider it. If you're a zillionaire why No, I haven't worked in a couple years. I Think 5 Million Dollars is a FINE price. But most of us just struggle to get by and enjoy our hobbies: I would like to introduce someone to their next reason to curse and thus be fair about it. I'm planning to claim a donated price of $3500 as that's exactly what I paid cash for this rare bird. How does that translate into cash in the hand? You tell me.


    Paul


    She goes to charity if nobody can buy her. But then someone might anyway, and for even less! You never know. That's how I got my old fire truck, From St Vencent de Paul. For $200. ( I got lucky, and how. ) I don't see a 'private' way to post my phone number.. If someone is interested please send my yours via that back door. I'm happy to call you. or you can request mine that way.
     

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  4. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Sadly, that boat is simply an old production boat with no significant historical value.

    I'm sure it could be a nice entry level boat for someone. I doubt you will be able to sell it for $3500.00. I've seen similar boats from that era in similar condition available for free with no takers.
     
  5. Bluewhale
    Joined: Mar 2012
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    Location: Bay Pointe, Ca

    Bluewhale New Member

    Alright Paul. Thanks for the heads up. Wish I could have helped.


    Paul T.
     
  6. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    A sad thing to see. A perfectly good boat with no suitable home.

    When I first saw a quarter tonner when I was in my twenties, I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I loved its sweeping curves and airplane wing like keel.

    In the boat yard I worked in we had a couple of them.

    Hoisting them was very easy. No propeller shaft to watch out for and one strap behind and one in front of the keel, so there was no chance of it sliding off.

    The boats I learned to hate were the long keel ones. Hoisting one of them was always a bit dicey. There was usually some some downward slope aft on the keel. That and the slippery bottom paint seemed to invite disaster.

    It seems like IOR boats and marinas were made for each other.

    As much as I would love to own such a boat, I can no come where near affording its docking and up keep.

    The thing is, there is a high property tax for waterfront property. Some of it has always been there and some of it has worsened due to the concentration of wealth in this country. Working waterfront (such as marinas) may be a prime casualty of this trend.

    Taxes go up; marinas have no choice but to pass it on to their customers.

    Boat well prices doubled in one year, back when I had my Siren 17. Since I never got the hang of trailering it and my income was shrinking (I probably make half of what I used to make, adjusted for inflation), so I sold the boat.

    Now it seems the rightful future owner of this quarter tonner (middle class or working middle class) is no longer there. Priced out of the market by higher taxes and lower income.
     
  7. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    As I noted earlier, that boat would make a nice entry level boat for someone. It would be a nice boat to sail with adequate interior for camp-style cruising.

    Sadly there is a glut of boats on the market, with many newer boats that can be had for next to nothing. A quick view of Craigslist every day will provide anyone who might want a boat many links to nice boats that can be had if they just take them away.

    Having a small keelboat is an expense, and if people are not using them and can't sell them it is better to give them away than incur the monthly expense of keeping them. At $10.00 a foot most small boats of this vintage eat more in slip fees in a year than they are worth.

    Here in SoCal every time a marina is refurbished it ends up having less small slips and more big slips.


    Almost all Quarter Tonners had inboards with prop shafts and P brackets. The rule just gave too much credit for designers to ignore. If you were hoisting boats back in the IOR days and they had no prop shafts they probably were not Quarter Tonners.
     
  8. mwwinklerdc
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Traverse City MI

    mwwinklerdc Junior Member

    Peterson 34 bilt by Mueller in 1982

    I am sorry to hear there are no buyers left for this design. I bought this boat after it had a new Yanmar 30 installed. The owner had a nasty scare in a Lake Michigan squall and sold it. Mine has a rich Chicago to Mackinaw history and a large and modern sail inventory. If anyone is interested please contact me: winklerdc@charter.net
     
  9. frc022
    Joined: Apr 2014
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    Location: Boston, MA

    frc022 New Member

    Is the Boat Still Available

    Hello,
    I am looking for the a Peterson 1/4 ton and yours looks nice. Is it still available. If not where did it go?

    Thanks - FRC022
     
  10. Canracer
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Florida

    Canracer Senior Member

    Lets talk taxes, and boat donation.

    If an owner donates a boat and gets $3,500 deduction, then what is the value of that deduction?

    My take is that the owner has his taxable income reduced by $3,500 (or some lesser fraction of that amount.) If his tax rate is 20% then that boat owner just put $700 in his pocket.

    Judging from those pictures, that IOR boat is easily worth $1000 all day long. If the previous owner really did love this boat (like he said was the case) then it may have many strong points that the pictures didn't show.

    $1,500 might be a fantastic price for this boat, more than double what the owner could recover by making a tax deductible donation.
     
  11. Canracer
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Florida

    Canracer Senior Member

    The basic question: What is a tax deductible boat donation really worth to the donator?
     
  12. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    this thread is over 2 years old, the boat is likely long gone.

    if the owner has not been employed for two years, and living on disability, likely his tax burden zero. his income results in no useful reduction in his tax burden because he does not have any (or not much) taxes to pay. If he had disability insurance, the proceeds are not taxable.

    You have to have taxable income in order for a charitable donation to result in a reduction in taxes.
     
  13. Canracer
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Florida

    Canracer Senior Member

    I know that the original post is old. The discussion is about taking a tax deduction for a donated boat, not about that specific boat (and I thought it looked like a good one.)

    If you pay no taxes then you probably don't get a deduction, that makes sense.
     
  14. Canracer
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Florida

    Canracer Senior Member

    That being said, I have never itemized my deductions. I've always opted for the standard deduction.

    My understanding is that unless you itemize deductions, you will not receive a reduction in your taxable income.

    Anyone have experience with this?
     

  15. Petros
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Arlington, WA-USA

    Petros Senior Member

    not true Can Racer,

    what most people, tax preparers, and even the tax software you buy does is compares you taking itemized deductions, against the standard deductions. Usually if you have simple finances the standard deductions result in less tax, but if you have complex finances with a lot of allowed deductions, than usually preparing the long form taxes results in a lower tax. to do this means you have to keep track of all your deductible expenses and work it out both ways. I am self employed so I have lots of items to report and deduct, and have done so for almost all of my working life since graduating college.

    One draw back is that everything you report on the long from is subject to scrutiny should you get an audit, so taking the standard deduction, even if it costs a bit more in taxes, maintains your privacy and greatly reduces your risk of audit. I have been through four audits, and I always take every deductions I entitled to since I am not surrendering ANY more taxes than I am required to. Since my audits did not result in the IRS finding anything they could find fault with (even through two appeals on their part), I no longer get audited (they have learned I am a waste of time for them). For me it is just sport, and my right, to limit my taxes as much as possible as allowed by law. when a tax preparer says "it is not worth taking these extra deductions, too risky", I find another tax preparer. If I am entitled to it taking the deduction, I will take it all. I do not like wimps tax preparers either, they are supposed to be working for me, not the IRS. Many are confused on that issue.

    A deduction only works if you have income to deduct it from. when I had low income or loss years in my business, than the deductions serve no purpose, other than an expense on my part, since I did not owe any taxes on the low income years. the whole "trick" with making deductions work for your income situations, is if you can justify owning a boat or other recreational device as part of a business expense, than the cost can be deducted from your income, lowering your taxes by a corresponding amount. It is NOT worth doing "just" for the deduction, that is ignorant crazy talk. the idea is if you are going to buy a boat anyway, and it is used exclusively for business (say a part time fishing charter business), than you deduct it, or a part of your expense, against your income. If it was not a business expense than it just an expense from "after tax" income. they can be hard on you if they think your nice fishing boat is just a hobby, but there is no law against you being a bad business man when it comes to buying new equipment for your fishing guide business. you just need to stand your ground and not be intimidated by meaningless threats by bully IRS officials. Most taxpayers do not have the stomach for that, so many expenses do not get deducted from the income, and people pay more taxes than they need to. That is what the IRS counts on. That is why they no longer audit me, they know the threats have no affect on me, and I do not earn enough to make it worth taking me to tax court. If I made a lot more money, things might be different.

    But anything that looks like sport or recreation, you will be grilled on and threatened over. If it is legitimate, there is nothing they can do about it. I like it when they get red in the face and have to go away. Of course, more than a few times the IRS will way over step their authority and do things to you that are not lawful, but you will not have much resources to fight them. when they did that with me I went to my congressman, he put a staffer to investigate, and I got a call from the IRS to "apologize for the misunderstanding". I said there was no misunderstanding, the IRS broke the law, apologize for that please (they did not of course). And I have not been audited since. In the past, a few agents have gone to jail for not following their own rules. BTW, I can tell you the trouble was not worth it, I was just mad and was not going to be bullied, and fortunately contacting my congressman (though it took several tries), did not cost me any money, and worked better than a tax attorney.
     
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