Peter R Payne-Sea Knife-Blade Hulls

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by jetboat77, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. jetboat77
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    jetboat77 Junior Member

    Where did you find the info on the Russian sea knife?

    The original units that Peter built(from the info I have) had an inboard but no flooded lower compartment.

    I see also a fixed skeg on the bottom of the hull of the Russian boat.
     
  2. HJS
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    HJS Member

    I once got it from Baeckmo

    Ocean Engng. Vol 11.No 2, pp 129-184, 1984
    SUPERCRITICAL PLANING HULLS

    js
     
  3. jetboat77
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    jetboat77 Junior Member

    Some drawings of the original boat Peter was marketing and building....has anyone seen one or know how many were built.
     

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  4. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

  5. orangutangu
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    orangutangu New Member

    Sea Knife uk

    Hi Jetboat 77 I live in UK and own the only Sea Knife ever produced in the uk she is currently in the process of repair and refit but am more thaan happy to discuss any questions you may have
     
  6. BMcF
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    BMcF Senior Member

    Peter had a definite 'knack' for developing some wildly unstable vessels; Decades ago, I was one of a number of engineers and NA's that supported the USN advanced marine vehicle test facility in southern MD and various of Peter's inventions passed through for evaluation.

    While the Sea Knife was dangerously unstable under some conditions, it was Peter's 'Wave Strider' that truly set the bar for wildly unstable advanced craft designs.:D

    Payne was prolific though and did contribute much to the extension of the envelope that surrounds AMV design.
     
  7. srimes
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    srimes Senior Member

    I've been having similar thought lately. Seems to me that it would work but may be more sensitive to speed than a simple deep v. I'm thinking that the ideal pad size would decrease as speed rises. For lower powered boats it'd be good as the speed range is smaller. For a fast boat (like bass) a small pad probably doesn't do much at lower speeds (30) and a large pad would pound at high speeds (70).

    But I'm no expert so I may be totally off base here.
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    It strikes me as an idea ( the knife hull) that had an inherent flaw that kept it from being adopted. The Sea Sled probably in the same category, has its good points but the snag(s) are ineradicable.
     
  9. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    I forgot all about this subject thread once again, only to look back at the info when a fellow I've known for a number of years just happened to mention working on the engines of the 'race model' one time,.....just out of the clear blue he ask if I had ever heard of Sea Knife
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  10. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Man its ugly :eek::D:p
     
  11. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

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  12. BMcF
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    BMcF Senior Member

    I'll always fondly remember the voice track over one of the old NSWC (NSRDC back then..if I recall correctly) trials group videos done after running one of Peter's boats they were tasked to test..when the test driver opined: "this was the most unstable boat I've ever been asked to try and operate.."

    That driver had been testing radical concept boats for nearly 30 years.

    :p
     
  13. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    Racing SeaKnife, CAN-DO

    I appreciate your input to this discussion, but if this vessel handled as bad as you report, why would anyone have gone forward with a 'racing version'?

    Racing SeaKnife
    The heaviest SeaKnife built to date is the 34-foot offshore racing boat weighing 16,420 pounds fully laden with three crew members and 450 gallons of gasoline, and powered by two 500 cubic inch engines which developed 625 hp each. She has achieved speeds of 71 knots. Tests were conduced at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay by the Naval Sea Combat Systems Engineering Station’s combatant craft engineering department based at the US Naval Station, Norfolk, VA, and a field activity of Naval Systems Command. The U. S. Coast Guard and DTNSRDC also participated in the tests.

    A 38-foot deep-V open-ocean racing boat was compared with the Racing SeaKnife during the tests I rode in the deep-V planing boat in sea state three (3) with winds at 13 knots. She provided a good ride in the cockpit area, close to the center at gravity. At 26 knots, she bounced on top of waves/swells and bit in nicely and firmly. However, when I traveled forward six feet into the forward cabin, I experienced the uncomfortable effects of hard slamming and violent pitching. My ride in the Racing SeaKnife in high sea state two in the navigator’s position, while standing on a padded deck, at least eight feet forward of the of the center of gravity. My ride there at 52 knots was better than that in the deep-V boat at the center of gravity. At one point, the Racing SeaKnife rode over a wake-swell and left the surface of the water flying to the next wave and gently knifing back to a planning position on the surface. She was responsive to the throttle and wheel, slowing smooth acceleration and tight turning maneuverability.
    SeaKnife, CANDO racing (1981).jpg

    Two comments from the Naval Sea Combat Systems Station Report # 60-113 are noteworthy:

    “A few qualitative comments are presented since measurements were not obtained. The Sea Knife is equipped with a power steering unit making the helm forces very small. Hence, control of the craft is relatively easy and the turning system itself presents no problem. High speed turns can be performed without concern to the chines digging and tripping the hull. In fact, it is desirable to turn rather tight turns to prevent the hull from sliding out on the turn. Considering the high performance nature of the test craft and the radical hull form, there never appeared to be any unusual turning characteristics. It was further noted that when the Sea Knife was dead in the water, it, like most small craft, would eventually assume a beam sea attitude. Once in this position there was practically no roll induced by the waves. The craft would heave slightly and pitch up by the stern as a wave passed, but no significant beam sea induced rolling was noticeable.”

    The owner of the Racing SeaKnife, racing driver Ron Cain, believes that of all the boats he has handled, the Racing SeaKnife is the least demanding, most stable, and most economical on fuel. She also leaves the crew unscathed in rough water. A new lighter, larger racing SeaKnife of the same horsepower has been built, 12 meters in length (39.37 feet). She is made of aluminum. Her full load weight is 10,700 pounds. She is currently undergoing trials and should make more than 87 knots. She can go from zero to 52 knots in nine seconds and turn 60 degrees per second.
     
  14. BMcF
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    BMcF Senior Member

    I should have been clearer apparently; I said "one of Peter's boats", but it was another of the designs that the prolific Mr. Payne had developed that garnered the interesting comments from test personnel.;)

    So where are the Sea Knife examples today?

    I should perhaps note that a colleague of mine for many years had worked as an engineer for Peter before joining our company. From that association I learned how remarkably prolific a designer and inventor Peter really was, since only a small portion of the concepts that poured forth from his fertile mind actually touched the water. One of his hydrofoil prototypes was quite remarkable..
     

  15. Submarine Tom

    Submarine Tom Previous Member

    Which one?
     
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