Personal overboard survival ideas

[skaraborgcraft]

Mabybe solution is non automatic inflatable vest .

Helmet ?

The only reason I'm thinking about micro raft , is the great progress in inflatable materials and the possibility of making new lightweight things.

Point of an automatic is that if you DID get washed over the side and knocked unconscious, the vest will turn you over and keep the head up. Many harnesses come with a combined vest either auto or manual....or none.

Helmet would have taken the sting out and perhaps saved a concussion. Curse of a heavy top gaff in a rolling sea.

After seeing "cookie cutter" sharks, anything inflatable is vulnerable. Those pack raft do make good lightweight tenders though.

 

[portacruise]

Gumby suits maybe the best way to go, can be installed in 2 minutes or Maybe worn while working in cold weather. Some types have tethers and snap stations which might allow some Limited working the boat depending on what the threat is. And they have a history of saving lives, especially when the boat breaks up or sinks, may not be a good idea to be strapped to it, conscious or not. They can be fitted with a watertight SOS satellite signaling device . They may not help with injuries though, if someone gets dropped from the top crest of a huge 100-ft wave. Facing cookie cutter possibilities is preferable to going down tethered , JMHO. A small water bottle size pack raft could be included in a small bug out bag, which could be grabbed at the last minute when someone jumps off in a Gumby suit.

There's at least one trawler forum, where pros and cons of Gumby is compared to life rafts are discussed, and also some of the above discussions are touched upon.

Immersion Suits Onboard Ships: Critical Survival Gear for Seafarers – Maritime Education https://maritimeducation.com/immersion-suits-onboard-ships-critical-survival-gear-for-seafarers/

 

[comfisherman]

The survival suits are great if you can get them on, have a custom built one as my arms and legs decided to outgrow normal sizes. That said, even the 1200$ custom suit is only good if its on. Cannot fathom working in one, its like wearing a water bed. Anecdotal evidence that folks get them on about 25-30% of the time.

About 18 months ago we took part in a rescue of a rollover, none of the 4 got into their survival suits. Raft blew but broke free in the opposite side of the survivors, to my knowledge the epirb never triggered. Remember the raft appearing and then fairly quickly disappearing in the debri field we pushed through getting to survivors. Was January in Alaska, had we been 3 more minutes farther they would have frozen to death. Water like that drains the life out of folks at a rate that's brutally observable.

We're required to have a rather long list of survival aides, but the ones I've seen really save lives are the survival/immersion suits and oddly enough the garmin inreach units. Have seen those save folks when the required epirbs did not function. Seems like back in the day the epirbs had a better track record, can think of several from the last 10 years where the epirb didn't trigger. Things go south Im going for my suit then inreach, then epirb and raft.

Only fell over once solo, at about 8 or 19 years old. The boat was drifting towards me, a tag line was over the side... I fell over on the corner that had a transom step and buit in ladder. Even then the cold shock and 30 seconds in the water was severe. Even if things lined up as perfectly im not sure at 40 I'd have the strength to pull off self retrieval. My current regimen for survival on a solo MOB is prevention and keeping a short tab with the Almighty and my wife....

 

[portacruise]

Drowning can happen in minutes or even seconds due to cold water shock with sudden immersion, even for healthy people,

Know Lake Tahoe before you jump in: The facts of Cold Water Shock - South Tahoe Now https://southtahoenow.com/06/24/2024/know-lake-tahoe-you-jump-facts-cold-water-shock

Tahoe water enthusiasts should know dangers of cold water shock before going to lake - Carson Now https://www.carsonnow.org/06/02/2023/tahoe-water-enthusiasts-should-know-dangers-cold-water-shock-going-lake


That might mean that some people won't live long enough- to crawl into an emergency life raft.

 

[montero]

There are different scenarios and you can't fix everything.

But maybe some solutions for wet sailing.

The problem is that even in warm water I eventually freeze.

In warm conditions a helmet, harness&jacket and micro dinghy with cover.
In colder conditions a helmet, diving hood, unfortunately drysuit, harness&jacket and micro dinghy with cover.

I plan to use climbing harness , diving dry suit and kayaking , diving or canyoning helmet . Very cheap

 

[montero]

Diving helmet - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diving_helmet#/media/File:Miller_Dunn_Divinhood_Diving_Helmets.jpg

 

[gonzo]

Most of the ideas seem to come from people that have not had to climb on a boat in rough weather. I have come up a dive ladder in 3 foot seas and it is really hard. I was properly dressed for the water temperature and had as much time as I wanted to wait for the ladder to go down and then grab it. A life vest may not keep you from drowning on a storm or hurricane. The best is, of course, not to fall. Bulky "safety devices" are a recipe for disaster. I never wore a harness or pfd commercial fishing. I believe nobody does because they get in the way. As far as diving helmets, that is absolute nonsense. To start with, they are connected to a compressor or tank bank with an umbilical. Secondly, they weigh 40 lbs not counting the bailout tank and other gear. I am an engineer/diver and wear them daily. You will get your neck broken trying to sail a boat with a helmet on.

 

[portacruise]

"But maybe some solutions for wet sailing."

Is this for a surfboard with a kite sail or sailing yacht?

You can get better help and ideas, if you define everything more specifically. What are the details of the boat measurements, and how far from Shore will you be going, are you in a place where air rescue is readily available and at reasonable cost, how much sailing experience do you have, or is this your first time? Do you have a way to monitor detailed weather while on the water, and some kind of satellite phone, etc.?

 

[montero]

Most of the ideas seem to come from people that have not had to climb on a boat in rough weather. I have come up a dive ladder in 3 foot seas and it is really hard. I was properly dressed for the water temperature and had as much time as I wanted to wait for the ladder to go down and then grab it. A life vest may not keep you from drowning on a storm or hurricane. The best is, of course, not to fall. Bulky "safety devices" are a recipe for disaster. I never wore a harness or pfd commercial fishing. I believe nobody does because they get in the way. As far as diving helmets, that is absolute nonsense. To start with, they are connected to a compressor or tank bank with an umbilical. Secondly, they weigh 40 lbs not counting the bailout tank and other gear. I am an engineer/diver and wear them daily. You will get your neck broken trying to sail a boat with a helmet on.

Climbing harnesses tend to be minimalist, less cubersome. Salt water corrosion will by problem that it can be solved later .
Light dry suit : e.g.
Aqua-Trek 1 Pro Dry - BARE Sports https://www.baresports.com/products/mens-drysuits/trilaminate-mens-drysuits/aqua-trek-1-pro-dry/
they say it's breathable, probably not too much . Lightweight .
Whitout this or similar I don't wont go to swim.
Water temperature in Baltic Sea today https://seatemperature.info/baltic-sea-water-temperature.html

Kayak Helmets | Whitewater Rafting Helmets – Outdoorplay https://www.outdoorplay.com/collections/paddling-helmets
Some of them have cold water ear protection or you can use surfers earplugs.

Diving helmets I mean something like this :
Diving Helmets https://www.gidivestore.com/intl/en/tech-diving/accessories-for-technical-diving/diving-helmets/
probably cheap bicycle helmets or cheap working helmets with some mods could be o.k.

I caught a ladder that had a 5 feet amplitude. I know how difficult it is to hold on with diving gear.

 

[montero]

"But maybe some solutions for wet sailing."

Is this for a surfboard with a kite sail or sailing yacht?

You can get better help and ideas, if you define everything more specifically. What are the details of the boat measurements, and how far from Shore will you be going, are you in a place where air rescue is readily available and at reasonable cost, how much sailing experience do you have, or is this your first time? Do you have a way to monitor detailed weather while on the water, and some kind of satellite phone, etc.?

Small 25' cat , experimental rigging , very limited sailing experience . I want to practice capsize and recovery. That's why I want a helmet.
Rescue electronics I know epirb, comfisherman mentioned Garmin Inreach. There is also some small vhf locator. I would rather not use them. Two small engines in case of trouble.

 

[portacruise]

Small 25' cat , experimental rigging , very limited sailing experience . I want to practice capsize and recovery. That's why I want a helmet.
Rescue electronics I know epirb, comfisherman mentioned Garmin Inreach. There is also some small vhf locator. I would rather not use them. Two small engines in case of trouble.

Cats are probably one of the most difficult boat designs to capsize and also to recover; but at least they give a big capsize warning when a hull lifts out of the water, if it is about to happen. They will flip over under severe forces and tend to stay in the flipped over position which is more stable, because of the weight of mast. In order to practice for capsize someone would have to quickly and repeatedly do flip over and Recovery under controlled conditions. I'm not sure how that repeated flip and over would be done, but it would probably take a lot of force. Maybe a motorboat pulling forcibly and quickly with a cable attached to the top of the mast could do it, but it would be more difficult to use a similar method for righting the cat. Maybe a remotely triggered inflatable bag could be tied to the top of the mast, to use buoyancy to help with righting the cat. As far as rescue electronics that use satellite, if you happen to survive a flip over, break up, or sinking, you will wish that you had something like that. Steering and maneuvering a cat using engine power may be difficult compared to a mono, especially with two engines mounted one per hull. The power throttle will have to be carefully synchronized between the two engines to go in a straight line. Hope this helps.

 

[montero]

Cats are probably one of the most difficult boat designs to capsize and also to recover; but at least they give a big capsize warning when a hull lifts out of the water, if it is about to happen. They will flip over under severe forces and tend to stay in the flipped over position which is more stable, because of the weight of mast.

Some cats are easy to capsize :

In order to practice for capsize someone would have to quickly and repeatedly do flip over and Recovery under controlled conditions. I'm not sure how that repeated flip and over would be done, but it would probably take a lot of force. Maybe a motorboat pulling forcibly and quickly with a cable attached to the top of the mast could do it, but it would be more difficult to use a similar method for righting the cat. Maybe a remotely triggered inflatable bag could be tied to the top of the mast, to use buoyancy to help with righting the cat.

Remotely triggered inflatable bag on the top of the mast , it was Donald Crowhurst idea and also my and probably many people. Most important problem with bigger cats will be mast wich is prone to break , so inflatable bag on the top will work if strenght of the mast allow. I will not go that way. Kind of fail safe for the mast is necessary e.g. after reaching high angle of heel.

As far as rescue electronics that use satellite, if you happen to survive a flip over, break up, or sinking, you will wish that you had something like that. Steering and maneuvering a cat using engine power may be difficult compared to a mono, especially with two engines mounted one per hull. The power throttle will have to be carefully synchronized between the two engines to go in a straight line. Hope this helps.

Definitely rescue electronics is must have.
Twin outboards in my case are more for redundancy .Limited amount of fuel and hope that one of two will start after upside down bath.Some outboards preparations can be done.

 

[portacruise]

Thanks for the video clip, looks like a lot of fun, but you didn't indicate you were using a hobie and had skills like that.. (only how to practice capsize and Recovery by novice were mentioned). Obviously wet sporting cats can be designed to run on one Hull for niche fun and speed applications. I haven't seen any cats that run on one hull like that in the vast majority of commercial, recreational, and other applications, I'd be interested in videos that show some of those. Good luck in your endeavors!

 

[montero]

I haven't used Hobie but I'll definitely try it now. It's supposedly a good way to learn cat behavior and reactions .

However, my 25' cat project will be rather difficult to capsize and impossible to recovery with the power of human hands.

 

[Squidly-Diddly]

I'd like a universal all weather, all terrain survivor pod based on an air mattress with inflatable and/or hoop supported double layer insulated covering.
With integrated solar still and water ballast.

It could save you if you were out in the desert and had to use your own piss to distill or floating out at sea or in freezing weather.

I guess you could wear it around torso like a vest with shoulder straps and it would be at least mildly initially buoyant.