Personal Aircraft Carrier

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Toot, Sep 15, 2006.

  1. Jimbo1490
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    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    Sorry to burst the bubble but Jet Rangers (the classic 206B variety) have about 3 hours duration and fly at about 120Kts flat out. Do the math. Even a lowly 152 goes farther. And without 'ranger' tanks :rolleyes:

    The most advanced SToL Light aircraft are of recent desing, NOT the old Storch. The Helio Courier and the Pilatus Turbo Porter come to mind. The Maule is no slouch either. The turbine Maule is one of those that they demo by gunning the throttle at the back of a 100' deep hangar and the thing is airborne at the doors :eek: Then ther is the PZL Wilga. Cute in a bug-ugly sort of way :D

    Arresting hooks are out of the question: the re-engineering needed in the airframe is to withstand the extra stess is daunting, costly, will screw up all other aspects of performance, and untimately prove impossible for most airframes.


    Jimbo
     
  2. jack wicks
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    jack wicks Wicks

    Good Idea, Too bad you couldn't just get an old retired aircraft carrier from some country before they scrap it. I've flown ag aircraft and ultralites, there are a lot of planes that could do this. It would be neat if the boat could have apartments or rooms to rent while at sea etc,. I think a fun project if you had piles of $ would be to build a bridge somewhere accrossed the Atlantic with rest stops etc, every 300 mi. or so. Think of it

    Are we off topic now??? Wicks
     
  3. alexlebrit
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    alexlebrit Senior Member

    I still think flying boat is the way to go, better than a float plane as they can be more compact.

    [​IMG]

    Fitted with folding wings, and then a boat with a big enough stern dry dock to be able to fold the wings and taxi in.

    Combine that with enough space for your SeaRoader too,

    [​IMG]

    and you've got the ideal combination of sea, surface and air transport.
     
  4. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    Damn, now you've got me thinking!
    As for the plane, http://www.geversaircraft.com/index.html look appealing? A bit bigger than we've been talking about, but capable of pavement, water and snow operations and with the potential for good low-speed characteristics. Experimental of course, at least at present. The old Storch is still pretty impressive for STOL performance but a bit of modern technology applied to the same concept could certainly do as well or better.
    As for the plane's powerplant, Pratt&Whitney Canada is reportedly working on a new class of light-aircraft turbofan.... the thing's tiny, only a couple of feet long, but insanely powerful. I don't think it's in production just yet, but their site's http://www.pwc.ca/en/3_0/3_0_0.asp
    As for the boat, I'm thinking cat- start with fastferry-like wavepiercing hull forms, perhaps, stretch 'em out to the needed runway length- then you get your big flat deck, while still being insanely cool in the process. Great ride and accommodations, and you could winch a few smaller yachts up between the hulls for travel and deploy them for exploration.... and you gotta have some sort of canopies you can deploy across the flight deck when the plane's not flying, so you can party it up out there....
    I'm gonna be giving this one some good thought, for sure... for now though, back to the report on this damn MHD drive I've been battling all month. Keep the ideas coming...:)
    -
    edit- http://www.pwc.ca/en/3_0/3_0_1/3_0_1_6_1.asp is the engine I mentioned, P&WC's new 600 series, fans from 14" to 18" and 900 to 3000 lbf of thrust. Certification expected late next year.
     
  5. Bob S.
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    Bob S. Junior Member

  6. Kaa
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    Kaa Wanderer

  7. ABoatGuy
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    ABoatGuy Member

    The other side of the equation is the pilot. There are very few private pilots that regularly land exactly on the runway centerline, let alone at a fixed distance down a runway. I may be cheaper to crash into the water and swim to the boat then wreck a plane AND a boat every time you wanted to land!

    The seaplane retreval idea would probably work . . . a lot more room to screw up.
     
  8. Smoothride
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Smoothride Dog Owner

    Paragliding off a boat

    I've actually done that (paragliding) off a boat with a small landing/launching pad on the front of one boat, while getting pulled off the pad by a separate speedboat via a tow line. We'd go up to 500 feet, release from the tow line, and float down in the chute, getting ready for water entry. Once in the water, we slipped out of our harness, and waited to get picked up by a recovery boat. We had all our flight gear on, and this was supposed to prepare us for a bailout over the water. Good times. Very do-able, and not too dangerous.

    They have paraglider models with small landing gear and seats, but you are still exposed to the elements. I would say a paraglider is better than an ultralight; very slow takeoff and landing speeds would make it safer, with less chance for a mishap.

    Having flown airplanes in the Navy for 10 years:
    In regard to landing a conventional fixed wing aircraft on a boat: any non-carrier aviator would need a fair amount of training to land on a small deck, not to mention the risk involved (significant).

    Most light aircraft don't have landing gear that can withstand the 350+ feet per minute rate of descent required for a no flare touchdown spot landing on a deck while staying on a 3 degree glideslope at 70knots final approach speed (normal approach speed in a C-172). Paragliding, while not glamorous, is alot safer and more fun! What a great way it would be get a birds eye view of what's ahead/around!

    SR
     
  9. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    At times a line is dropped from a helo to a smaller boat and the helo driver goes full UP and some chief Boat handles a winch and times the rolls and yanks the helo to the deck.

    The paraglider might drop a line ,fall back into towed mode and be hauled aboard to a spot.

    FAST FRED
     
  10. Jimbo1490
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    Jimbo1490 Senior Member

    With a true SToL light aircraft, plus a relatively fast motor yacht, capable of say 20 Kts or so, it should be possible to 'catch' an airplane with a well thought-out catch system. The Helio Courier I mentioned in an earlier post flies with full control at 26kts. A mere 6kts headwind with our proposed 20kt motor yacht gives an approach deck speed of *0*.

    http://www.helioaircraft.com/ourplanes_courier.htm

    A far less costly alternative might be a SToL kitplane like the Zenith:

    http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-perf.html

    Same deal; right conditions and the approach speed is zero. There are risks in catching airplanes but it is do-able and gets around all the problems with having a 'real' aircraft carrier. Nobody is looking for jet speed here so why use a solution built around that capability anyway?

    Jimbo
     
  11. marshmat
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    marshmat Senior Member

    But I want Mach 0.85 performance at 42,000 feet from my yacht-launched bizjet!
    Neat planes both, Jimbo.... love the helios; the zenith ain't the prettiest thing in the world but I like the concept.
    As nice as it would be to be able to run a Learjet from my boat, I think something a lot slower and more leisurely is in order here... I'm thinking a big, high-aspect wing with 'the works' in the slat/flap department; good and efficient at high speeds but with a slow stall speed, a challenging order but certainly doable. Slap a pair of those P&WC 600-series engines on it, with reversers.... hell, with engines like those folks sell now you may as well just sit the thing on its tail and let 'er rip.
    Aha! Here we go- Convair's XFY1 'Pogo'. http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/convair_pogo.htm Anyone here nutty enough to willingly get into that thing?
    Or how about a bit of a '30s flashback.... http://www.zeppelin-nt.com/pages/E/luftsch_u_zepp.htm anyone?
     
  12. Hotel Lima
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    Hotel Lima Junior Member

    bell 609...

    wouldn't that work?
     
  13. Greenseas2
    Joined: Mar 2006
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Cheap carrier

    Don't think it hasn't been done. An ultralight landed on a 198 foot by 45 foot regulation deck barge that was being towed a few years ago. Let's see....with a stall speed of 26 mph for ultralights, and with the barge traveling in to a 10 knot wind at a water speed of 10 knots, the aircraft would touch down with a forward speed of 6 knots. Put a tennis net at the far end of the barge....just in case. With the cost of a well used regulation barge being around $50,000 and an ultralight around $12,000, your carrier with aircraft will come to about $62,000. Of course, tug boats to tow the barge charter for about $2,000 per day......but what the heck.
     
  14. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    All that is really needed is enough room to stop a 500lb ultralight , without the high G loading of a cable arrested landing.A soft arrest.

    AS cont. operations will not be needed the old runway end "Last Chance "method could be used. A cable is laid across the landing area that simply connects to 2 lengths of old old chain.

    If the hook engages the chain begins a 180 turn and is progressively dragged along behind the aircraft. A 500lb 30K ultralight would probably be smoothly stopped in 20 or 30 ft with 1/4 inch chain.

    Old ships chain can grab a 120K brakeless fighter and stop it in 100ft , smoothly.

    FAST FRED
     

  15. Greenseas2
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    Greenseas2 Senior Member

    Ultralights

    Hi Fred, haven't talked with you in awhile. I believe that FAR's limit the weight of an ultralight to something like 275 pounds. I'd hate to think what a tail hook stop would do to the aircraft structure in that they aren't that well built. The grace saving factor with ultralights is that the stall speed is limited to 26 mph. You could just drag your feet and stop it. Big thing is to practice setting the aircraft down on the numbers as in short field landings. Ship's speed into the wind is key to a mid-deck departure lift off. You probably would need winds of 20 mph coming over the bow.....10 wind speed and 10 ship speed. Don't think I'd trust a 2 stroke engine in this scenario though. A group project of this sort would be fun and I believe it's do-able; however, I'll opt to run the ship rather than fly the plane. The only wings I now have are chicken feathers when it comes to aviation experimentation.
     
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