Peoples Foiler :aeroSKIFF™ / M4

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. Raggi_Thor
    Joined: Jan 2004
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    Location: Trondheim, NORWAY

    Raggi_Thor Nav.arch/Designer/Builder

    I have nothing to contribute, but must say this thread is quite amusing :)
    Have you seen the foilyak lately?
  2. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Peoples Foiler

    Figgy, for the right boat that might be a good idea. But modifying an existing boat can be a can of worms-many of the existing Moths had to have daggerboards angled forward to get the mainfoil far enough away from the rudder foil to give good pitch stability. This meant(means) that the board could not be retracted and had to be installed from under the boat by a crew who waded out to deep enough water.
    A double ended hull* can be a real benefit in taking off in the lightest conditions because the boat can be pitched up allowing a greater foil angle of attack with the least drag. On a boat like the Hoot or RS
    600 that would be a problem....
    So far I think the boat that eventually fills the bill as a Peoples Foiler will be designed from scratch as a two foil monofoiler.
    * A system has been developed to allow a bi-foiler to take off level with no pitch up at all but is slightly more complicated than a Moth system.A lever is used to shift the angle of incidence relative to the 0 degree line(static wl with crew forward on aeroSKIFF) of both the main foil and rudder foil. Does not interfere with wand function.Foils can be shifted while sailing and can be shifted back for higher speed foiling.
  3. Dan S
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Dan S Junior Member

    So when are you going to show us this design?
  4. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

  5. Dan S
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Dan S Junior Member


    I don’t think you can really call this a finalized design, what has been provided looks more like conceptual drawings to me. How is the proto type coming, do you have any photos to share?
  6. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    To my knowledge this loud talking guy Doug Lord has never presented one drawing, done by him, on this board for any of his "designs" that are so far advanced the rest of us are "nuts" for not following along.
  7. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Peoples Foiler

    It's a little beyond conceptual drawings, Dan.The drawings reflect much of the technical design work that has already been done. No prototype will be started until financing is found for the project. Many aspects of the design may be improved upon throughout the process.
    The M4 is way ahead- already sailing (at least) their second prototype.
  8. Dan S
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    Dan S Junior Member


    I think you have your priorities wrong, most people at-least have a prototype built, if not tested, before they start a PR campaign.
    1 person likes this.
  9. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Peoples Foiler

    Dan, to the extent there is a "PR campaign" it is about the concept of a Peoples Foiler-not specifically about the aeroSKIFF 14. The idea is to pull together in one place as much info about Peoples Foiler wannabe's as possible -not to promote any one boat.
  10. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Isn't this the guy who keeps telling people they should get right into it and build their foiling Moths since a world class boat can be done for US$7,000?

    If that's the case then what financing is needed for this project? Think of all the cash flow you'll have once you show the world how it is done. Should be a great ROI.
  11. frosh
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    frosh Senior Member

    I would be certain that your credibility would improve dramatically if we could be privileged to also be allowed to take a look at the technical drawings of the design. From your description of the features of the Aeroskiff 14:?: discussed in posting #77 the adjustments possible to the foil system will pale the Fastacraft one to one I might describe as relatively rudimentary.

    Is it possible that your NA (and I prefer not to ask him directly, as it might not be him anymore) would make a posting on this forum indicating the veracity of the material in your quote above.
  12. Chris Ostlind

    Chris Ostlind Previous Member

    Doug, This is pretty darn cute, if you ask me.

    " the extent there is a "PR campaign" it is about the concept of a Peoples Foiler-not specifically about the aeroSKIFF 14. The idea is to pull together in one place as much info about Peoples Foiler wannabe's as possible -not to promote any one boat."

    Deny the obvious and then use that pulpit to go on with yet another promo pitch. Like I said before, you've possibly missed your calling as a politician.

    When one goes back through all the various and sundry "discussions" about this whole, foiling for the masses thing, one quickly realizes that virtually all the hyperbole presented is nothing but an attempt to pump-up a position which you so desperately need, to make this AeroSKIFF thing work in any possible way.

    There's a reason why nobody will step-up with the cash to do the deal. Actually, there are probably a dozen, really good, well thought-out reasons to not get involved, as an investor, in a project of this sort. Not the least of which, is that this type of boat is more, or less, the flavor of the month in the pursuit of all things technological in the sport. Once the flavor leaves the front of the consciousness in the marketplace, there's no real substantive value to the company unless they can gin-up yeat another tasty flavor that's new and different.

    Lot's of folks have interesting, inspired even, ideas that get them vaulted into the front of the genre in which they operate. The trick is to have a second idea and so forth, so that they can stay in business and not be a one trick pony.

    Investors like annualized profits, to be sure, but they also want lasting equity value in their investment so that when they cash-out, there's actually something there that another group will want to buy, thereby leveraging the previous profits to a much higher plane.

    A company with out of date tooling in a technical field is virtually worthless.

    You could drop all the pretense about the real mission, as well as any mention of the defunct process you are on with the AeroSKIFF foiling idea. That would go a long way to eliminating that part of the objection that a group of list members are having. Then you could concentrate (and I know you will) on discussing the verifiable merits of projects that are actually moving to some sort of destination through hard work and personal investment of time and cash.

    Sooner or later, Doug, you have to walk away from the busted dream and try to latch on to one that is actually going somewhere. I get the, relentless obsession, part of your actions. Pitching TV and Film projects is very much like that. There does come a time, however, when you have to accept that it "ain't gonna happen like you thought it would" and just let it go.

    There's real grace in objective reasoning and hopefully, it will allow you to get past the tough realities. I truly hope that happens for you.

    I'm not down on you anymore, Doug, but even you would have to admit that the routine here is getting kinda sad in its desperation.
  13. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    Can anyone here with experience in the field tell us whether capital investors can normally be found before a working prototype has been created, especially considering it's not a particularly expensive item to build?

    In the time this project has been pitched here, other people on the Boat Design forum have fully designed, built, launched, tested, sailed, paid for and raced (and even taken out patents on) larger and sometimes more novel boats, while working, racing or coaching, and bringing up kids and paying off the mortgages.
  14. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    Peoples Foiler- aeroSKIFF 14 prototype

    I'm relatively satisfied with the hull design but the rig, foils, sliding seat, weight equalization system , pods and control systems need experimentation and refinement. Of those the hull design , engineering, quicky tooling and the carbon mast and boom tooling will be the most expensive.In the business plan I think the estimate was around $120,000 to get the completed design and structural engineering from Eric, one set of quickie molds(suitable for a few parts), two complete hulls, decks, pods etc.,custom carbon masts and unique wishbone booms with up to 10 rig iterations to be tried(designed and engineered by Eric and built by a production composites mast builder). This included work from Barry Spanier on sail design with at least 10 different sails. This amount included us full time for a specific
    time and included something like four months of two boat testing BEFORE being ready for production tooling. This was not conceived of as backyard project but as a first class development
    plan to be funded properly or not at all. It requires that not only do we have a committment for the extensive(and methodical) development of two sailing prototypes and the time for testing but that we have the funding from that point to a fully functioning business including patent protection on developments that merit it.(This amount is approximately triple the prototype development costs).
    Eric and I don't have the funds to do it ourselves and we don't consider a less ambitious version of the project to be worthwhile. The result of pursuing this course of action may be no boat at all or it may be one of the most outstanding new dinghy foilers ever built.All or nothing-done right or not at all.....

  15. usa2
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    usa2 Senior Member

    I think you should do it.Theories are nice to think about, but if you actually went through with one of your ideas that would be really cool.
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