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Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Guest625101138, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. Vantage475T
    Joined: Aug 2016
    Posts: 105
    Likes: 32, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Lymington,UK

    Vantage475T Adventure Trimarans

    Tiny, I'm waiting on some final costs but based on what I know I would say around £750 for the first one and £650 - both inc VAT and delivery to the UK taking into account shipping, import duty VAT etc.

    For my boat the 1st one will almost certainly be the better bet but I will need to think through the fitting.

    If anyone might be interested I can look into ordering a small batch of them.
  2. Andrew Kirk
    Joined: Jul 2021
    Posts: 28
    Likes: 23, Points: 3
    Location: Chorley UK

    Andrew Kirk Junior Member

    Would it not be a blatant act of theft to buy anything from Ningbo Vicking or any of the other copiers? If you tried to retail these products I'm sure you'd soon be in a legal battle with the manufacturers of the originals and have your stock seized, and rightly so. Theft of intellectual property is just the same as breaking into someone's house and stealing what you fancy. You have every right to disagree.
  3. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 1,184
    Likes: 138, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 358
    Location: finland

    kerosene Senior Member

    I am playing with a short story in my head that goes roughly like this:

    Joe (could be me) : "*******! This stupid piece of plastic crap. Why on earth would someone manufacture a tool that is so bad! Is it even meant to work without braking. I will hunt down the man who builds these and let him have it."

    after a long hunt Joe reaches mr Li in China.

    Joe - having cooled down a bit: "Mr Li? WTF? why do you do this kind of crap? Don't you have any pride?"

    Mr Li: "Look Joe. I would like to make better products, and I have in the past, but they came out 40% more costly and the wholesalers wouldn't touch them. Everyone else would make these cheap ones for this price so if I want to stay in business so I have to too. Don't blame the me blame the wholesaler who doesn't want to pay more."

    After a little research Joe finds out who is the wholesaler and gets on a call with Mr Poon.

    Joe: "Why on earth do you peddle this kind of trash. Couldn't you pay just a little bit more and actually trade goods with utility instead of waste that is designed to disintegrate in use?"

    Mr Poon: "Oh, we like selling products we would use ourselves too, but they are more expensive. When we get those on our catalogue nobody overseas buys them. So here we are. Don't blame me blame the retail store chains that only buy this crap."

    Again Joe finds out who is the retail store buyer and gets him on the phone.

    Joe: "Ok mr Willis, can you tell me why you buy this stupid stuff that is not even meant to operate without braking?"

    Mr Willis: "Ah yeah it is bit of a bummer. We do get quite a few returns on those."

    Joe: "So why do you sell such products?! Why don't you choose quality!?"

    Mr Willis: "Oh we have some quality tools too but they cost quite a bit more. They don't sell well at all."

    Joe: "I see, I see. I have heard this story before. So whose fault is this time?"

    Mr Willis: "Joe. It wouldn't be very polite of me to point that out to you."
    Will Gilmore likes this.
  4. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 1,184
    Likes: 138, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 358
    Location: finland

    kerosene Senior Member

    That being said, it is a bummer that they cost north of $1000 made in the west.
    That is not a reasonable price for such a simple product. I am not blaming the producers but mean that for consumers that isn't reasonable.
  5. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 1,184
    Likes: 138, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 358
    Location: finland

    kerosene Senior Member

  6. Will Gilmore
    Joined: Aug 2017
    Posts: 563
    Likes: 244, Points: 43
    Location: Littleton, nh

    Will Gilmore Senior Member

    I make art. I sometimes sell them, or at least offer them for sell at the craft fair and regional markets. I have cheap art, hand painted chicken signs on scavenged pine, and high art, pyrography, carved and inlaid too.
    20190324_151353.jpg 20190322_183851.jpg
    The shoppers come into my booth and they love the chickens. They compliment them and point them out to friends, but some people look at the $75 price tag and get indignant.
    My wife and I take a pickup truck to a mill that sells a pile of cutoffs by the bed load. The two of us put a couple of hours in picking through the pile and filling the bed with wood. Each piece is then planed and sanded and an edge put on them. I sketch the chickens out by hand, some are traced with carbon paper, then my wife paints the bodies, about forty minutes per chicken. I paint the faces and the lettering is done by either of us. We use 6 coats of spar-varnish to finish them and attach wire hangers to the backs. In the end, $75 for a larger sign, one with three chickens and writing on it, has over ten hours of labor. We are not doing these to make millions, but it would be nice if people who liked them could appreciate the time and effort that went into them. On the other hand, the high art pieces are priced closer to the $25/hr mark because I wanted to get, for my expertise, about what my plumber makes (roughly $100/hr). But, when I looked at the estimated price, I thought, "no one is going to pay that for art." And, I halved the price. However, I don't calculate the time that goes into the design development, the back and forth between the customer and me to refine the design. By the time all that time is figured into a piece, the weather station above, for example, at $1400.00 only puts me in the $25/hr range and I don't get regular work, at that.
    I do it because I love doing it, but I make more selling jellies and jams and honey from our bees, than art.

    I completely understand that these numbers are hard for a buyer to take. If they weren't, inflation from the ease at which a customer parts with their money would soon bring it right back up to such a condition.

    There's a balance that has to be struck between being a cheap ******* and an understanding patron of quality products.

    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
    BlueBell and kerosene like this.

  7. kerosene
    Joined: Jul 2006
    Posts: 1,184
    Likes: 138, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 358
    Location: finland

    kerosene Senior Member

    Yes. And I fully get that people making the pedal drives are not laughing on the way to the bank. It is very hard when the product is a niche to get to volumes that would sustain more reasonable prices. And often a chunk of capital would be needed to get significantly lower production cost (molds or larger production runs, whatnot). These investments might extend the market significantly making it worthwhile - or it might not sell any more. Not easy to take such risks.

    Nice signs by the way.

    And back to the allaround marin unit above at 700 euros or so starts to be worth looking at. 1:10 drive and looks to be well made.
    Will Gilmore likes this.
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