PD Racer South Africa

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Manie B, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Guys we want to start a PD Racer club South Africa

    http://www.pdracer.com/

    http://www.pdracer.com/site-map.php

    http://www.watertribe.com/

    Dries has offered to cut the first 5 boats on his CNC router for free.
    We will design a nice little kit that goes together easily.
    Our boats will comply with the PD Racer rules so that we are part of the international group.
    The whole idea is to start a genuinly fun orientated club that is aimed at the first time boat builder and the guys that would like to get the family and kids, or themselves, out there and have fun on the water, easy and cheap.
    We can also arrange our own little "raids" where we as a group sail towards Villiers as a 3 day "adventure"
    Obviously we can also visit other dams, and party all over.

    The main driving force is to do the "Around the Island" next year as a registered class, this would be a great kick off point.
    My micro-cruiser will always be on stand-by as well as a PDR that I will build for myself, just to promote the "water experience"

    We need to get the kids and the adults into the fresh air, and the PDR is a very easy and cheap way to start, learn to sail, it will change your life, we will be there to help you along.

    My estimates are that you could build this for around R2000
    here are the pics of the one that I fancy
    sleeps two, nice storage for the cooler box
    and with a boom tent the whole boat is covered at night time.

    These are a collection of pictures that I got off the PDR website and this particular boat simply blew me away, love at first sight!

    So - calling all Saffas - lets go sailing! We will help as much as we can.

    So even if you own a mega expensive cat with gold taps, build a PDR and let your visitors have fun, join in!
     

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    1 person likes this.
  2. DriesLaas
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: South Africa

    DriesLaas Weekend Warrior

    proposal

    Hey Manie et al,
    I attach two images of what I propose to cnc cut as a kit. It is a stock standard PD racer with side tanks and a small foredeck. The height is sixteen inches and not eighteen, as this seems to be the more popular choice.
    I faired the terrible bottom profile to still be within tolerance but a lot fairer, it makes very little difference to how the boat will sail.
    There is a structure under the mast step to carry mastloads, and the transom is built up with a doubler. The dropouts from the doubler forms the cheeks of the rudderstock.
    I have not given thought to the dagger/centerboard trunk, but this is up to the discretion of the invidual builder, as it is driven by his weapon, sorry I mean rig of choice.

    So far so good, I want to cut the first simple kit this week from el cheapo 6mm pine ply from boardking at R170 per sheet.
    The mass of the wood so far is in the region of 30 kg, for information.
     

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  3. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Manie, what a noble idea if it could work.....
    If I may be devil's advocate.

    People in SA are different animals than say the British that may love these boats. They are obsessed with hype, like for instance cars - everyone wants to have a Merc, Bmw or Audi (like the plague on the roads), although there are much better cars out there and the Honda Accord comes to mind, but how many do you see on the road?

    Same with boats, they want sleek, modern stuff and always bigger than they can afford. I agree that these little boats can put many people on the water at the cheap and add a lot of fun in the package, but again, what would the neighbors and the guy with his sleek machine think of your boxy boat and herein lies the big obstacle to change SA perceptions.

    I had the same problem: I built the best 4.5m fishing boat that weight only 180kg (foam filled) with 30hp engine and could only sold 4. Problem? To good a boat with too much flat floor space, properly rigged out for fishing, tiller driven etc. Fisherman would rather buy a fancy looking ski boat with no space, fancy seats/steering station and carpets and nowhere to put their fishing rods and goes fishing with that- again the hype thing and show off factor.

    Lastly, it is a buyers market out there in the boating world and people does not have money to spend on nice things, let alone time to build a boat. This was the very reason I scrapped that brand new mold of the planned L18 which was ultra modern compared what is available in SA without pulling one hull. Everyone wanted one but nobody has the kudus to spend.

    But, times are a changing and perhaps you and Dries can do the unthinkable and changes peoples point of view here. :confused:

    Remember that beautiful Flamingo dam I showed you some time ago in my town that is derelict now, lawns and picnic spots just bush and thorns etc. Well, in the seventies and eighties you were pressed for space and the dam a hive of activity with all sailing classes but time and financial circumstance caught up with it. There are also other similar sad stories out there.
    Best to start with killing DSTV to try and get people out of their homes can be a good starting point:p

    Again, I tried not to slow you down Manie, but these are facts you have to consider when dealing with Saffas....
     
  4. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Just on a much lighter note ;)

    I am looking for a new girlfriend
    around 30/35 years old
    so this PDR of mine will make FANTASTIC accomodation for the little kids that usually come with this kind of parcel :D
    so you see there is method in my madness

    you and Fanie will definately NOT FIT so dont worry :p

    now to get serious :idea:

    the idea is just to have a bit of cheap fun
    my PDR will be available for anybody in a bikini :eek:

    sorry I am trying to get serious
    want to encourage the prospective boat builders that write to me and want to build a "Micro" that they first build something small, without braking the bank, THEN drag the missus to the wind and rain and the misery that comes with sailing AND THEN come back and talk to me about that 40ft CAT with golden taps

    in other words bye bye boating, because the BOSS HAS SPOKEN !

    But for the chaps that genuinely would like to get away what a wonderful place to start :)
     
  5. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Also what may make a difference

    we are not trying to sell anything

    we are purely there to help

    in other words - get off yer lazy @rse - stop the TV - and get busy in the garage :idea:
     
  6. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Manie, I would love to build one just for the fun of it to compliment the Portuguese dinghy in my garage :cool:
    But first, I must get my Seven finished that lacks far behind schedule due to other commitments that put bread on the table...so far for retirement:(

    The PDR might make a nice little bass boat for the local river with my little 2hp Suzuki glued to it tail;)
     
  7. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Can hook you up to a 37 years old looker (brunette) that loves to wear little black bikini's and comes with 3 children - oldest a young lady of 16 years young that also wears the skimpiest water wear and not shy to say the least.;) Btw, as an added bonus, this lady had the cut and is bullet proof :D
     
  8. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Wynand I am glad you have posted the above because I just realised that YOU MUST BUILD A PDR

    because here is the challenge

    we can start the first PDR "potjie" competition
    I will do a beer one
    you can do a wine one
    and then we wash it down with some "Bells"

    howzat !

    you just decide on your "camping" layout for your boat!

    To the guys a "potjie" = little cast iron three legged pot, in which you make a stew, meat browned at the bottom, then layers of veg, then layers of potato or rice, cook very slowly for around three hours. I will leave the rest to your imagination because we have some serious cooks around here, that folks will beat a path to their door for a plate of this food

    Go and look at the PDR website
    there are a couple of big boys there that proves that a PDR is a very capable cruiser !

    Wynand the guys will love to sit around a camp fire and chat to you about the boats, come on, join us, you have some wonderfull stories to tell.

    Here is Wynands pedigree :)
    http://5psi.net/
    for the newbees that dont know :)

    Wynand, Anchor Creek is closer to you than me
    up the road is the Motorbike Museum and pub
    lots of fun ;)

    And Then

    I will challenge you to a "skottel" breakfast :D

    (a skottel is a round dish plough disc, perfect for bacon and eggs)

    So you see Wynand, you have no excuse not to join us!
     

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  9. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    It looks it's gonna be a lot of fun for you guys Manie, two Saffas so far on the World Wide PDR members list, PDR #17 and #606, last one seems to have found that girlfriend to join his PDR sails ;)

    Have lots of fun and smaaklik potjie :)

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
  10. Angélique
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    It seems to be meant that way . . . . .

    Class Rule Explanations:

    Good luck !
    Angel

    P.S. - see also . . .
     
  11. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I don't understand the tolerance range of the class rules . . . .

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Are those decimals or eighths of inches behind the commas in the Tolerance Range table ? ?

    Compare for example the above Defined Hull Shape station measurements with the Ideal line in the Tolerance Range table :confused:

    And what is meant by the "over to bow" measurements in the Tolerance Range table ? ?

    Cheers :confused:
    Angel
     

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  12. lewisboats
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    lewisboats Obsessed Member

    It is in inches and 8ths. Look at the inch drawing and see that station 1 is 2 5/8 then look at the tolerance drawing and see that ideal is 2,5... same with station 2: 5/8 and ,5 Which means that there is a +/- tolerance of 2/8 or 1/4" for sloppy building practices or those with all thumbs. The over to bow means that not all the boats are the same length...look at the tolerance for length. So this is the remaining distance from station 7 to the bow.
     
  13. DriesLaas
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: South Africa

    DriesLaas Weekend Warrior

    Allow me o comment, as I need to put this to rest right right now lest anyone starts believing that we are building a non-standard boat. This type of thing could haunt me forever.

    I remember an old piece of software called plyboats, where you could also use a similar concept to compose any curve on the boat. If I remember correctly, it was using some spline data, and one could combine a curve from two different spline "stifnesses," which is sort of what we are talking about here. Is it possible to get plyboats still? I drew a few sweet hulls on that software, and actually built two boats from it myself.

    The problem is exactly that most builders would set out points, fit a batten through (maybe spring the batten once to allow for the different stiffnesses required,) and draw the curve.

    When I drew the curve on cad, it is clearly unfair, so I had to fair it, otherwise the bottom would be much less fair than one built by hand ( remember I am cutting the panels on a CNC router, which for everything it is, can still not eyeball a curve and adjust it to be sweet......)
    Do not fret, I took great care to ensure that the fairing variation was kept within a tolerance band of 6mm. That is not +-6, but rather +-3mm. So I should be somewhere within on eight of an inch from the target on any point on the bottom profile.
    In conclusion I also offset the profile on the side panel by 6mm (the panel thickness I want to use on the bottom) to ensure that the lower surface of the hull conforms to the specified hull coordinates. ( Most builders are actually out by 3/8 inches unless they do the same offset exercise.)

    So I daresay that this is all completely academic, because the effect it will have on the speed (such as it may be) of the hull is negligible. It just satisfies me that I did things as properly as I could.

    As an aside, I think that the native american who "scraped out" a dugout canoe did a fantastic job, and I would like to call my boat "Sitting Duck" in his honour.
     
  14. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I don't think you have a thing to worry about.

    Having hung around the pdracer site since there were only four boats, I think I can attest to that.

    The bottom shape controversy started with the 'oz duck', which seems to have exploited 'builder tolerances' to create 'design tolerances'. This, IMHO, did little if any harm to the class, because these boats still had the cardinal dimensions of a pdracer, including the mildly raked bow transom, 1h to 2v, the location of the deepest section, between St.s 4 and 5, and the depth of rocker, 6 inches, not to mention the same length, beam, and very similar static waterline length.

    It is these numbers, more than anything else that dictate the performance of the boat.

    The real problem with the 'oz boat' was its superior engineering (I bought a set of plans, just so I could study them). It was built a considerable expense (by pdracer standards) out of very thin plywood (which had to be a notch up in quality) and epoxy everywhere. In short, its hull structure is a functional masterpiece. Add to that, its rudder and dagger board had a professionally designed foil (which, to his credit, the designer posted the offsets to), and a well thought out leg-'o-mutton (which the designer posted as well).

    As a consequence, it was it weighed 1/2 to 2/3 as much as the typical pdracer.

    Add tho that, it's massive 81 sf of sail (perfectly legal, as sail area is not regulated in this class) compared to the 60 to 70 sf that was typical in the class at that time, and a good tiller nut, you have a practically unbeatable boat.

    By then, I had long ago posted the idea of sail area to weight restrictions, but was pretty much ignored. The restrictions I posted could have been handled on site with a cheap calculator. They slightly favored heavier boats, as to get out of using cube roots, and because the hull design itself favors lighter displacements considerably more than most purely non planing hull designs.

    For this reason, when an 'oz boat' was built here in the USA, it swept the fleet.

    The bottom shape controversy started shortly afterward.

    By that time, I was no longer participating in the discussion group, so there were no "I told you so"s from me.

    Sadly, what could have become a single global fleet, has now broken off into three separate and unequal parts, pdracers, 'oz ducks' and 'kiwi ducks', when, at worst, some very simple handicapping would have been needed to keep the fleet unified.

    when it comes to racing, we all know:

    deeper boards are faster than shallow ones, one board is faster than two, air foil shaped boards are faster than taper ended flat ones, a center-line board is faster than an offset one, lighter boats are faster than heavier ones, and the sail to displacement ratio is king.

    But most pdracers are not built purely for racing. The two I designed were primarily for comfort and hitting shallow bars and hidden logs with minimal damage.

    Getting back to you. It is quite clear that you have made every attempt to keep your design within the perimeters of the rules (something the 'oz boat' designer did not do) and only failed because your software wasn't quite up to the job.

    I am sure Shorty will recognize this fact.

    I have 'Plyboats' too. It is possible to design a pretty accurate pdracer bottom with it. Just draw with the sides 18 inches high, 7 ft long, and use only seven stations, leaving the flat part out. Then St. '4' becomes your deepest station. Then use the offsets print out to see which spline choice gives you the closest curves for the bow and the stern.
     

  15. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Cape Town South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    thanks sharpii2
    as we are trying our best to get this thing of the ground (our members will be very limited) we are concentrating on the "fun" aspect
    we are going to try to make the "kit" easier to assemble and do what we can to make it faster and easier to build and bring costs down to a minimum. Minimal costs is the most important.
    This also the concept that I would like to promote as a "first build"
    way too many guys start off to big and then run out of steam halfway
     
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