Pacific Proa Junk Rigged???

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by rael dobkins, Aug 17, 2019.

  1. rael dobkins
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    rael dobkins Senior Member

    YES!

    In the video below watch it work better then all expectations!!!
    Easy shunting! reefing, sailing and just an all good rig.
    A long road of trial and error comes to an end.

    Balkan Shipyards.

     
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  2. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    Probably one of the slowest change of leg I have ever seen.
    Why people persist with these old technologies to go slower than 90% of small sailing craft, I will never understand.
     
  3. rael dobkins
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    rael dobkins Senior Member

    Thanks for your support, I truly love your comments.
    I on the other hand could never figure out armchair sailors......
     
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  4. gypsy28
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    gypsy28 Senior Member

    Perhaps some people simply don't need the latest wizz bang technology or the need to sail faster than 90% of small sailing craft? Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it's wrong.....I'm glad I wasn't born such a negative nelly
     
  5. rael dobkins
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    rael dobkins Senior Member

    Gypsy, You hit the nail on the head, those are exactly my reasons for building the boats I build.
    Except for the fact that Proas amaze me, They are truly cheap and simple to build (If you get it right.... which I hope I finally have....) No other boat that could offer these micro cruising abilities would be as long, but still light and compact enough to go on the roof of my small car........
    Shiny technology costs big money, In East Europe, money comes hard..... Spending huge bucks on latest technology is something I just can't do.......

    Still I have 2 cars one is "modernish" 20 years old... got electronics computers.... The other is 35 years old, driving it feels like you're sitting in a toolbox, he can rattle your fillings out of your teeth..... I crossed Europe countless times in him MID WINTER, snow and ice as far as the eye could see...... I would do it with him any time! WHY? cos I can fix anything on him, ZERO electronics! Cos he's OLD SCHOOL! And you hit it! I LIKE IT THAT WAY!

    The force is strong with you, Keep Shunting.
    Balkan Shipyards.
     
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  6. Onefish
    Joined: Oct 2019
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    Location: Pennsylvania

    Onefish Junior Member

    Why bother with a monohull when there are plenty of fast multihull designs? Why bother with non foiling designs when there are foiling designs out there? Why bother with wind power when there are plenty of gas powered boat classes out there that go faster?

    Sailing is about enjoyment, you go with what you enjoy, not necessarily the most practical options.
     
  7. Dejay
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Location: Europe

    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Very nice boat, congratulations on finishing her! I think I saw one of your videos a while back.

    I'd be curious what you think of the harry proa E25 camper pod.
     
  8. BigCat1950
    Joined: Nov 2018
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    Location: Seattle

    BigCat1950 Junior Member

  9. rael dobkins
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    rael dobkins Senior Member

    So, So, So true, sailing is an exciting, interesting and fun way to go from A to B. there is no wrong or right.
    No better or worse, it's all a sum of compromises, a fine balance of design that will hopefully achieve to designers requirements.
    Why buy a tractor? A Ford Mustang is faster.........
     
  10. rael dobkins
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    rael dobkins Senior Member

    Rob Denny is a man that thinks out of the box, his designs are fast, unique but expensive, he takes no shortcuts and will not hesitate to use the best of materials with the highest technologies. I respect him for that, I love the pop up caravan idea, the hulls are slim and fast, this E25 is a true Pacific Proa,vs the big Harries which are not Pacific proas since they carry their weight to windward.

    With those high aspect rudders, I suppose weather helm could be minimized. Still Shunting proas like the sail as far ahead as possible, Since all proas bow down to the wind, hence they lack a heavy engine in their stern, since that stern soon will become a bow..... Cos bows must be light........

    Bottom line, I feel the CE is to far aft vs a proas CLR which is usually way forward, still I know these designs work, I just need to sail one to truly understand how.....
     
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  11. rael dobkins
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    rael dobkins Senior Member

    Ping Pong is a crazy bird.... I like it for what it is, a concept, an idea, a mans imagination turned into a true working machine.....
    Pacific Proas carry almost all their weight to leeward, that makes them Pacific, and that's the way proas should be in my book.
    A fine lightweight wave piercing ama will reduce loads and add strength except for flattening the ride and resulting in the most comfortable multihull under the sun.
    The low RM of Pacific Proas is something we need to learn to live with, vs try to solve.
    Still an interesting concept that still has to prove itself.......
     
  12. Onefish
    Joined: Oct 2019
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    Location: Pennsylvania

    Onefish Junior Member

    This actually may be the best application for the junk rig. I could see the possibility if rigging it so that there is no need to have a "bad tack" with the sails getting blown into the spark. As far as speed of shunting, the video shows the guy moving at a leisurely pace, someone in more of a hurry could easily perform the operation much quicker. I could also imagine a rig which allows you to move it much more quickly and easily.
     
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  13. rob denney
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    rob denney Senior Member

    Rael, thanks for the compliments.
    Couple of things you missed:
    Harryproas are not expensive. They are cheaper for their length than any other multihull. I have just built a plywood 24'ter. http://harryproa.com/?p=2944 This is a prototype for approximately 100 boats which will be built in the Marshall Islands as an alternative to outboard powered skiffs. It was more expensive than building it from foam, took longer, weighs more and needs far more care and maintenance.
    A 'true Pacific proa" has a lateen sail, no plywood, assymetric hull, little or no metal and a crew able to move to provide righting moment. Neither your boat, nor the E25 come close.
    The E25 is an easier to build version of the 15 year old Elementarry, http://harryproa.com/?p=1753 which had a coe well forward, both geometrically, and because the foresail works harder than the aft sail. With the twin boards it is also easy to move the clr as required. Consequently, weather helm is/was not an issue.

    You are correct that you need to sail one, not just to understand it, but to be sure that what you say about it is correct.
     
  14. guzzis3
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    Location: Brisbane

    guzzis3 Senior Member

    Rob,

    How is the cargo ferry coming along ? Love to see the finished boat.

    Also did that 10m trailerable boat get finished and if so are there photos anywhere ? It really caught my eye as a maxi trailerable mini cruiser.

    Hospital wednesday so off air for a while after that/
     

  15. Dejay
    Joined: Mar 2018
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    Dejay Senior Newbie

    Oh I saw you seem to have just published a new design, the Ex40? Congratulations!

    Could you publish a composite material list for the E25?

    The material cost comparison probably depends on whether you use proper marine plywood or use cheap outdoor plywood.
    I wished structural foam would be cheaper. I'd also be curious how you manage to "get by" with relatively light fiberglass skins? (e.g. 400gsm for the ex40?) That should really make a difference in material costs. But time is money of course.
     
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