Our beloved MONICA wrecked by incompetent marina

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by sailingmonica, Aug 11, 2022.

  1. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    What marina is the boat at? I think that the first thing to do would be to sound the area and find out what the depths actually are. Based on that, and the draft of your boat, a plan to move the boat can be made. Lift bags added to heeling the boat is one possibility.
    bajansailor and fallguy like this.
  2. sailingmonica
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    sailingmonica Junior Member

    Not possible by truck. Too high for bridges. Cannot dismantle, as built in one piece. Cannot cut either. It was a good design, but it didn't account for being stuck in a place where the channel was always kept at 8 feet. Until now, that is.
  3. sailingmonica
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    sailingmonica Junior Member

    If I was in the US, everything would be possible. Up here, we don't even have a commercial towing service...
  4. sailingmonica
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    sailingmonica Junior Member

    Cannot truck. Too high for bridges. Cannot dismantle, I can only cut, at great expense, and massive labor hours. I am stuck in purgatory, feels like. I always had solutions, always had hope, never, ever gave up. But this one...
  5. bajansailor
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Assuming that you can get the boat lifted out with the Travel Lift in the yard when they come back from their 'holidays', and considering how she is too high for bridges, is there not somewhere nearby where it would be possible to launch the boat (even 'just around the corner' or similar), without any bridges being in the way?

    If this is not at all possible, then as Gonzo suggests, a detailed survey of the channel is probably your best bet. Carefully sound everywhere, and try to map it, showing where the 'high' spots (relatively).
    It might be possible to 'go around' any high spots - but you won't know until it is mapped.

    Is is possible to get a tracked excavator to the left side of the channel (left side as you are going out)?
    If so, then maybe it could do some localised dredging in way of the high spots (assuming that there are high spots, and that it is not silted up totally).

    If you take the rig off, and try to take all the 'loose' items of outfit equipment off the boat, this should reduce your draft a bit - and every inch is important here.
    However if you take the rig off, you cannot heel the boat any more to reduce the draft.

    Re heeling the boat, I think that they were making a fundamental error in the video, by just using two towing boats - one attached to the bow, and one to the mast head.
    If they are three tugs, with an extra vessel attached to the stern as well, and then carefully coordinate between themselves such that they keep the boat centreline at right angles to the channel when heeled, then I think there would be a much better chance of success when towing the boat.
    As it is, with no tug on the stern, as soon as the boat starts moving she wants to slew around, increasing the possibility of the keel then running aground again.
    If the side of the keel is always at right angles to the direction of tow, then the odds are better re how it will simply pass over any localised high spots.
    Would it be possible to have another attempt at taking her out, using three tugs instead of two?
    If yes, do you get much atmospheric pressure variation at this time of year? If the pressure decreases, the water level will rise slightly - and this might help you.
  6. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I understand, but at what marina are you in?
  7. Kayakmarathon
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    Kayakmarathon Senior Member

    This reminds me of other amateurs masquerading as professionals. GE made huge transformers in Pittsfield Massachusetts YEARS ago. When they tried to transport one by rail, it hit an overpass 1/2 mile away. Nobody checked to see if it would clear. A couple years later, they hit the same overpass again. Nobody took the time to measure the clearance of the overpass and height of the transformer.
  8. sailingmonica
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    sailingmonica Junior Member

    I cannot make that information public, at the advice of my lawyer. I can private message you if you wish. All I can say is that we are in a very civilized area on the shore of Lake Ontario.
  9. mc_rash
    Joined: Aug 2020
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    mc_rash Junior Member

    I guess I know at which marina your boat is. On their website they say it's for boats "under 5 ft draft". How did you get your boat in there 3 years ago?
  10. sailingmonica
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    sailingmonica Junior Member

    By water. It was always 8 feet or more.
  11. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    If there's a crane barge with suitable capacity & draft that could come in, lift your boat and relaunch.. or even a flat top lighter under the travelift for relaunch at another location.
    I'm unsure how the marina is to blame for the channel depth- do they own the river or are they responsible for the years of weather?
    Most boats should take that grounding, boats come through rough surf and usually just rudder damage at least at the start, that looked quite gentle, the pulling on the mast looked pretty awkward though. I'd generally do that in reverse with outboard or leg/steerable thrust.
    Anyway- you're in a pickle but you'll get out... just calm it downo_O, work with the yard and at least help with a survey on the depths with a pole to find the best path might help too.
  12. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    Sound the channel (captain only), waterbag, and lift bag, if structures permit.

    Fundamental errors indeed. You cannot use 3 boats even for this plan. I am sorry to disagree with Martin, but the degree of heel varies too much as the boat on the tangent can slip and the boat is bouncing and the keel can come down and bury fast.

    Here is a video of water bags heeling a boat. This maintains the heel. However, as you can see, they are nowhere near 45 degrees. I am not advising, but sharing a method. The technical details would require you to evaluate whether your mast and vessel can support bags. But this is the only way I would have considered the channel.

    A couple of other points. First, there are two minor tides per day even on the great lakes. They are not considered as tides, but they exist and they are a bit under 2", but when every inch counts, use the correct time period.

    Also, part of the reason tides are not considered in the Great Lakes is the winds are larger factors.

    A wind blowing into that marina would provide more than 2" of water. So, you must also plan to go out into a headwind. Probably a bit more unnerving to end up bashed on the jetty, but the winds do raise water levels on the windward side of the lake. If you plan a day and you are in the lee; you postpone.

    I do not know a thing about lift bags, but a marine salvage company may offer some ideas.

    The boat should be fully heeled to need before it moves. This, of course, means everything inside must be removed, about the only thing to keep would be built in tanks and fuels removed. The engine would be needed once the boat got out past the jetty. There is some predictability that the fuel tank will be sloshed and dirty. If you go out under windward for some more water; you will want to have some way to make sure you have clean fuel and the engine doesn't have a problem related to the heeling and kills for you in winds. Extra fuel filters and changes will be needed and probably already..

    I am not a professional boat salvage expert and only offering ideas to help you frame a plan option and assume zero liability.
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  13. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Your best hope is that your own insurance will pay out all your claims regardless of your own recklessness. Besides having the marina and insurance guarantee you the outcome in writing, the thing you should have done before you attempted this, was to do an inclining test at the dock to see how far the boat must be canted to obtain the desired draft reduction (if possible at all with your hull form). Such a test would have also revealed any potential leaks and unsecured items.

    As to getting the boat out without dredging the bar, that's entirely possible as long as you are willing to pay. It will involve a frame two feet under the waterline and lifting bags. Contact a local salvage company for help, they have the equipment.
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  14. baeckmo
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    baeckmo Hydrodynamics

    Concurring with post no 16; where there is silting/sedimenting or tidal flows, the flow is often meandering along the bottom, making "fresh" depth soundings a necessity before moving out. If you have the hull lines available, it is pretty easy to find the degree of healing necessary to come free.

    If the hull is reasonably well designed and built, a grounding at low speed should be no catastrophy, although increasing the adrenalin levels. Preparing the vessel for heeling is the skipper's responsibility. In the local shipping community where i live, the saying is "you haven't been sailing the seven seas if you have not run aground".......
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  15. DogCavalry
    Joined: Sep 2019
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    DogCavalry Soy Soylent Green: I can't believe it's not people

    As an old combat engineer, material fine enough to be carried along to where it can fall out of the stream as silt is very fine indeed. There won't be any boulders or even stones to speak of.
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