Osmosis? And epoxy coating inside hull

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by jacob1234, Jul 3, 2020.

  1. jacob1234
    Joined: Feb 2019
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    Location: wales

    jacob1234 Junior Member

    Hey guys,

    I am refurbishing a 22 itchen ferry cutter from effectively bare hull. In process of stripping to bare so I have a clean slate. I’ve seen some sketchy looking spots in the grp. Does it look like osmosis? Also I was tempted to epoxy fibreglass the whole inside with a thin coat so I know I have a good base to build the interior off. What are everyone’s thoughts on this? Then I will rebuild in whales and deck beams from laminated ply epoxy and bulkheads and deck etc from epoxy coated ply too. Thanks for the help!
     

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  2. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    For reference for other readers, here is some info about the 25' GRP Itchen Ferry which was production built for a while in the 70's -
    https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/itchen-ferry-25
    I am thinking that maybe they made a mistake re length, as all the adverts seen on line mention a length of 22'.

    Jacob, what are the circumstances behind you acquiring this hull?
    You have a LOT of work ahead of you to complete it - what is your ultimate ambition?
    If it is to go sailing, then you would be better off scrapping this hull and just buying a second hand boat.
    If you have a particular passion for Itchen Ferries, here is one for sale - you could probably buy her for a fair bit less than GBP 2,000.
    Listing for sale: Janstar: Itchen Ferry long keel 4 berth yacht https://www.andyseedhouseboats.co.uk/boats/2485-Janstar

    Be aware that you will very quickly spend GBP 10,000+ on refurbishing the hull that you have, and then wonder where all that money went...... and then if you want to sell her you might be lucky to get GBP 3,000 for her, because she is an 'old' (albeit refurbished) boat.
     
  3. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    That looks like delamination from here; not blisters.

    Do not epoxy the entire boat inside. For all your structural work; you need to grind the existing glasswork with 36-60 grit sandpaper for key.

    At the end, if you want to seal things up before putting down the sole or painting; that is the time to neat coat with epoxy.

    Pay close attention to the diseconomy pointed out above. Just because you spend 10,000 on her doesn't mean she'll ever repay you.
     
  4. jacob1234
    Joined: Feb 2019
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    Location: wales

    jacob1234 Junior Member

    Hey bajan,

    I acquired the boat for free along with newish spars and sails and almost working engine from a gentleman that wanted to refit but didn’t have the health for it (and maybe money based on what you’ve said?) it cost me £700 to transport it to my friends yard.
    I was hoping to do bare minimal build to get sailing even to point of flush deck potentially.
    Also a major part of this build is improving my build skills so there is some value here other than end result (experience) but saying that I don’t want a complete money pit. I aimed to keep the budget around £2000 to fit out.

    Also is this osmosis in your opinion? I don’t really know what to look for other than blister like spots.

    thanks!
     
  5. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    I would agree with fallguy that those suspect areas in your photos look more like delamination or the fibreglass was not properly 'wetted out', or something like that.
    But I wouldn't worry too much - these boats were built massively strong in the 70's.
    The boat has already cost you £700; you will very quickly now spend £2000, and wonder where it has gone, especially when you find that there is still a lot of work to do.
     
  6. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    fallguy Senior Member

    You do realize the boat will sink as well. You'll need to foam it for safety.
     
  7. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    Location: Coastal Georgia

    SamSam Senior Member

    There comes a point where a boat is too big to rely on secondary flotation and then safety is directed to ensuring bilge pumps work properly and through hulls are sealed, life jackets available with possibly an escape raft etc. Boats sink through mistakes and neglect usually, so you rely on maintenance and vigilance.

    I wouldn't bother with foam for now. With such a low amount of money, use lumberyard materials and go for a working boat finish with every thing serviceable but not fancy or expensive in materials or workmanship. That doesn't mean cheap and shoddy.

    You should have a final plan but you'd have to do it in logical steps. You don't want to have to tear out anything you've built if you don't have to. It needs a deck to make it water and weather tight, whether the deck has a cabin in it or not should be accommodated, but the interior doesn't need too much finishing for now. However and wherever the mast is going to be stepped needs to be accommodated.

    Keep in mind the possibilities of parting out (selling) what you do have with sails, masts, motor and running gear and cutting your losses to still end up with a fairly large hull to get rid of. It could be used as a roof of sorts. Keep the mast and sails under cover until you're ready to put them on the boat.

    A trailer would be very handy to have for now, to be able to work on it and move it if your friend's wife gets tired of it in her yard, and after the boat is finished, so you don't have the big dockage or moorage fees or the worry of it sinking in a big storm while moored. Plus it's easier to work on it out of the water.

    One of the first things I might do would be to get the the motor, shaft, propeller, stuffing box and rudder sorted out. Sailing is over rated in my mind, it's more enjoyable to me to have more control to go where you want when you want and a lot less nuisance to motor than sail. Sailing is a marvelous thing though, but with such a low budget, you must prioritize.

    As far as gutting and cleaning out the rest of the boat, minimize grinding, or at least raising dust while doing so. Chiselling fiberglass flanges and things works better than sawing and grinding in most cases. Frequently washing the inside down with a garden hose keeps the dust manageable and the whole project generally clean. I would usually have a light water spray on where I was grinding if there was a few days for things to dry out before laminating. If there is no direct bilge drain to outside the boat, don't be afraid to drill one or more, you can easily patch it later and it is very useful when washing down while working. A shop vac can be positioned and running to suck up direct grinding dust, a few box fans can get the general flow of air and dust going away from you and to get fumes out of the hull when you start using chemicals. Heavy grit sanding discs like 16 or 24 work well, especially if you put a lot of pressure on the machine and slow the speed down to where dust isn't thrown all over. Some machines can take an amazing amount of abuse, better them than you.
     
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  8. SamSam
    Joined: Feb 2005
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    SamSam Senior Member

    It looks like the inside deck could be made self bailing, so you could put that floor in and run some 2x4s around the gunnels and have it as an open boat for now. Be like a Viking for awhile. You could put the mast up and the rigging, have a hatch box on the engine and then later on put in a top deck and a cabin if you want.
     
  9. fallguy
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    fallguy Senior Member

    or build a watertight compartment
     
  10. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Hi Jacob and welcome, the boat that Bajansailor found has plenty of work to gain skills. If you're canny enough you may well be able to clean up the hull you bought , capture someone's imagination[a blank canvass] nearby and resell with or without the parts and possibly cover your costs or go close.
    This strategy means you will still do some hard slog but the time/ cost blowout will be cut short even while you'll likely watch it balloon into unexpected proportions. You will know a lot about this type of boat just by getting it ready to work on. Study up on these boats/owners etc in the meantime.
    . At least use this as an escape plan and don't buy stuff that you'll need later until it is all thoroughly cleaned up and prepped nicely, practice using polyester resin and glass for fixing gouges,old screw holes, drill into the delam to see if its wet[osmosis]in the void, repair ..then decide.
    This economic environment puts a lot of pressure on the value of boats especially that need work. which you can use to your advantage perhaps.
    Good luck with the project, building in an early exit clause could help keep eyes wide open and peace of mind.
     
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  11. kapnD
    Joined: Jan 2003
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    kapnD Senior Member

    You need to first get it dry, maybe drill drain hole as mentioned above, and then keep it dry while you work, as in building a tent or shed over it.
    A moisture meter would be a helpful tool in determining what’s going on with the odd looking spots in the laminate.
     
  12. Rumars
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Rumars Senior Member

    In your budget the best option is to make her look like this boat (wich is a surviving original): Tim Gilmore Ltd. - Wonder http://www.woodenboatsforever.co.uk/gallery_wonder.htm

    To do this cheaply and quickly you first brace the hull with some pallet wood so that she keeps her shape, then powerwash her thoroughly. Remove the remaining wood rests. Buy some 15mm exterior ply, epoxy and fiberglass. A few floors, two full bulkheads to delimitate the cockpit and a continuous sole will stiffen her up. You don't need a clamp and deckbeams, just glue some battens in a grid under the deck plywood. You also need to glass over th various unused holes.
    If the "almost working" engine proves to be dead, just remove the driveline and fit an outboard. With a few cans of paint you can have a nice classic looking day or racing boat.
     
  13. jacob1234
    Joined: Feb 2019
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    Location: wales

    jacob1234 Junior Member

    Hey guys! an update.

    Decided to keep on with the project, Ive gone through the trouble of getting it down my friends lane to his farm already and Im not one to back down from a challenge!

    Put in a fair few days recently and got to the point where I have stripped all the old tabbing and bulkhead remnants, also ended up (sort of) unitentionally pulling out the engine mount bed and removing prop shaft so that I could get rid of gross diesel soaked foam in back of bilge. Removed all of the inside sheer clamp except for most of the stiffening items around the stern so I can still climb in and out safely. Had a go at removing paint, but have resolved myself to just removing flaky spots and abrading down into fibre where I need to place structural items such as bulkhead etc.
    Stripped out all through hulls for engine too to allow removal of glass layers around and am tempted to not replace the inboard to save myself hassle of trying to fix and also make the inside space better - though I will go with a stern mounted outboard bracket as its easier in a lot of ways although I am sad to see the inboard go.

    I have bought four sheets of 18mm duraply (marine ply substitute?) for £60ish each off the advice of a professional boat builder for initial bulkheads and a table saw to allow me to rip strips of wood and build up/laminate inner sheer clamp and deckbeams from timber which may work out cheaper than marine ply Im thinking. Again I dont want to spend loads so I am hoping that standard hardware store (pine?) timber will suffice if laminated with epoxy and maybe a cheeky layer of glass tape off the neutral axis of the deckbeams for extra strength. Then for the deck I will buy additional sheets of duraply (thinner? maybe about 12mm I was thinking with glass laid over the top? As long as I have sufficient deckbeams.

    Here's an outline my intended next steps for basic completion in bullet points

    - remove outer rails with plan of cleaning up and replacing with new fasteners/sealant/coat of varnish at a later date
    - laminate ripped timber into new inner sheer clamp ignoring back section as havent stripped ladder access point
    - shape and fix main bulkhead (mast load) using a bed of epoxy paste and wide fillet to spread load (also fix sole bearer underneath)
    - Fabricate laminate timber deckbeams and install to sheer
    - since boat is relatively stiff now I will remove all of the old stern structure and fill in inner clamp that i missed before using ladder amidships
    - fit rest of remade sole bearers (do this need to be fixed as appeared floating in demolition)
    - fit cabin sole
    - lay deck with epoxy
    - then look toward cabin buildup if wanted
    - trimmings inside and out

    Please any advice on above would be awesome! You guys are invaluable

    [​IMG]
     
  14. jacob1234
    Joined: Feb 2019
    Posts: 14
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    Location: wales

    jacob1234 Junior Member

    also! does anyone know what this mysterious thing in the fore end of the bilge is? My first thought was some sort of grounding for the metal box keel underneath but it is infront of where the box attaches and there is nothing protruding beneath so I am skeptical about this. The end of the cord is just a thin metal wire encased in plastic
    [​IMG].
     

  15. missinginaction
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    missinginaction Senior Member

    Those relatively light colored patches in the middle picture in your first post look exactly like some small areas of insufficient wet out of the laminate. I ended up with some spots like those on engine stringers that I built back in 2008. If the layup gets warm as it's being done (it's an exothermic reaction) you can end up with some bubbles in the laminate here and there. The stringers were overbuilt and have never been an issue over the past 12 years. I don't think it's a problem. That vintage boat is probably solid polyester, no core. As you pull thru-hull fittings you'll have a good idea as to how thick she is. This will vary at different points on the hull.

    A grinder (gently), a paint removing tool (either pneumatic or for a power drill) and a shop vac are your best friends right now. Keep at it.

    Invest in an A-frame type shelter for the boat. You need to get that boat dry and keep it dry as you work. You'll be happier if you're dry as well. ;) An A-frame works well because you can leave the ends open and let fresh air blow right through. Try to orient the cover to account for prevailing winds. If most storms come out of the west orient the boat that way. The tarps that cover the A-Frame will act as a sail and be damaged by high winds if you orient the boat in the wrong direction.

    At this point my main focus would be a decent work area. Keep poking around. Take pictures of everything as you will forget how things went together after you've taken everything apart. A lot of photos will save you a lot of heartache.

    This is a big project if you do it well. I'll post a link to a thread I started some time ago after I finished doing a restoration on my boat. I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm trying to build some awareness.

    Want to know how much a restoration might cost you? Read on..... https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/want-to-know-how-much-a-restoration-might-cost-you-read-on.62104/#post-852075
     
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