ORMA 60 Class in Trouble?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Jan 20, 2007.

  1. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    From a post by Graeme on the Multihulls list( multihulls@steamradio.com ) :
    Mark Turner has responded to the comments on PYL's blog: "I can assure you that as of today there has been NO decision whatsoever regarding the classes involved in The Transat for
    2008. In fact there hasn?t been a decision as to whether there will be one event (remember we saved it from death in 2004 at the last minute, this cost us a lot of money, and we cannot afford to do this again, so we can only confirm the race if we have a solid financial solution to pay for it). IF there is one, then we will publish a preliminary Notice of Race in February, but at this stage we will not be able to confirm the start or finish ports ? in our preparation work we are looking at a number of them. As regards to the classes, NO decision has been made, we have simply asked for feedback. We have been considering bigger boats like the new large multihulls (Joyon, Coville, ex-Castorama), the existing ORMA 60s, IMOCA 60s, and smaller monohulls as well. And like I say, one final option ? of not doing it at all! The letter that you clearly have not actually seen, that was sent to the ORMA projects simply asked the question ? are you actually likely to be entering if we have an ORMA class? So far we have received only two responses ? but both positive ? from Sodebo and Yvan Bourgnon. We are big fans of the multihulls (as you know ? from Ellen?s sailing in ORMA, to a Jules Verne, a solo record attempt and the new Extreme 40 European Series just launched), and we hope that we can run a great event in 2008, like we did in 2004, but what we cannot afford to do is publish a Notice of Race including ORMA 60?s, only to find there are just 2 or 3 boats ? because by including them in the Notice of Race it immediately limits our choice of port. We do not have ports like those of Le Havre or Saint Malo in the UK ? and we certainly don?t have any towns or regions ready to put much money in, again unlike France! As to the future of the ocean going multihulls, my personal hope is that a new class of maybe One Design, big ocean racing trimarans will emerge, able to race solo and crewed, maybe for the 2009 or 2010 season. These amazing boats remains the most spectacular of all our sports?s creations, and I look forward to their rebirth, regardless of whether they feature in The Transat 2008 or not. A decision which we will of course communicate to you when it is made...?
    So it sounds like the ORMAs aren't necessarily going to be turned away, but they sound like they're on probation.
    There's a lot of activity with the big trimarans, such as B&Q Castorama, IDEC and Sodebo, and I think that's the direction that the top-end of the multihull circuit is moving in.
    Yves Parlier was working on a concept for a one-design 80' trimaran, but that's gone quiet. He was looking at running a round the world race in
    2008. Parlier lost his sponsor a few months back (Mediatis cited a lack of media coverage), so I don't know what's happening there."
  2. Vega
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    Vega Senior Member

    We are talking of a race almost two years from now. And there are lots of races in between.
    The last one was a big success and I will bet the next one will be even a greater one. That story about money looks like an advertising stunt to me. They are advertising for a big Sponsor, probably one related with France state companies (national public interest).

    It looks that the guy doesn't know if the big stars will be the new and bigger tris and cats, or the Orma boats, but in the end the Organizers are just pressing for sailors to get organized and focused on "Their" race.
    The Guys with the 50ft tris will be glad to jump in, if the big guys go to bigger boats. They will take their places on the ORMA boats.

    It is just a question of definition on what will be the winning multihull. The best sailors will be there. That’s why he only got two confirmations from ORMA boats. The others are waiting to see if they can have a big one for themselves;) .
  3. brian eiland
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    brian eiland Senior Member

    The End of an Era

    ...courtesy of Scuttlebutt
    Your humble narrator's favorite article of the week, another must-read from the fellows at TheDailySail.com. A few bits from this 3400 world piece:

    The end of an era

    We bid farewell to the ORMA 60 and look at the rise of the new MOD 70 trimaran One of the saddest stories we are having to write this year is that of the demise of our favourite race boat class, the ORMA 60 trimaran.

    Over the last 30 or so years the class has brought us some amazing stories - the fight between Apricot and Paragon in the 1985 Round Britain Race. From a British perspective there was Apricot beating all the 75ft competition on one leg of the Round Europe Race, Lawrie Smith, Rodney Patisson and co showing the French competition around the race course aboard Paragon. In France there was Florence Arthaud's victory in the 1990 Route du Rhum (Ellen wasn’t the first female sailor to kick male butt singlehanded offshore...), Laurent Bourgnon’s incredible singlehanded transatlantic record during which he broke the fully crewed 24 hour record, the OSTAR wins of Philippe Poupon Loick Peyron and Francis Joyon, Yvan Bourgnon setting a 623 mile 24 hour record in the Quebec-St Malo race, the dominance this decade of Franck Cammas’ Groupamas…

    So why has the class gone to the dogs?

    The reasons are numerous but equally very typical of practically all development classes from dinghies through to maxis. In the case of the ORMA 60s, where all apart from the Gitana team are fully sponsored, the reasons have been primarily escalating costs and not enough return on investment for their backers.

    Today the general consensus, if there is one within ORMA, is that since the present generation of boats are all virtually one design, they might as well go for a one design trimaran. And so it is that the Multihull One Design (MOD) 70, a design by Vincent Lauriot Prevost and Marc van Peteghem, is now being touted around.
  4. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    Where is the Mod70 class today. Need some to qualify for acceptance in the Sydney-Hobart.
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  6. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member

    Are multi,s being accepted in the SH race 2013
  7. oldsailor7
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    I have it from a reliable source that the Sydney-Hobart Yacht Race committee
    would consider a multihull class in the race providing a minimum of five boats could be confirmed.
  8. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member

    Last information from your reliable source OWEN was when he contacted them they advised him he must have got confused and multis where a no. no.

  9. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    There is some news on that though. It appears I misunderstood Sean Langman and the five boat request was for entry of multihulls to SOP's which is the CYCA's offshore series. I don't know if that will happen though as they are requesting Cat 1 and there are not many Cat 1 equipped multihulls in Australia (chicken and egg situation I think why would you equip your boat to Cat 1 when there is no events that require it, etc)

    There is possibly going to be a start for the two ORMA 60's of Team Australia and Team Vodafone though and they may happen to be racing together to Hobart somewhere around New Years, maybe :D is that sufficiently vague?
  10. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member

    What about the Brisbane to Noumea or Brisbane to Fiji Race.

    Auckland to Fiji Race.

    Sydney to Hobart Race.

    Brisbane to Gladstone Race.

    ISAF Rules

    Cat 2 REGS

    Exits and Escape Hatches - Multihulls Mu0,1,2,3,4


    a) In a multihull of 8m (26.2ft) LOA and greater, each hull which contains accommodation shall have at least two exits.
    Mu 0,1,2,3,4

    when first launched on or after January 2003 have a minimum clearance diameter through each escape hatch of 450mm or when an escape hatch is not circular, sufficient clearance to allow a crew member to pass through fully clothed;
    Mu 0,1,2,3,4

    A trimaran of 12m (39.4ft) LOA and greater first launched on or after 1/03 shall have at least two escape hatches in compliance with the dimensionsin OSR 3.07.2(a) (ii)
    Mu 0,1,2,3,4
    c) Each escape hatch must have been opened both from inside and outside within 6 months prior to an intended race
    Mu 0,1,2,3,4
    d) A multihull shall have on the underside appropriate handholds/clipping points sufficient for all crew (on atrimaran these shall be around the central hull).

    As you can see these are required for all categories, not just Cat 1.

    Yes Cat 1 requires a SSB but surely this would be standard equipement to receive emergency weather warnings by e-mail.

    Nearly all races come within the ISAF Rules run by any Affiliated yacht club.

    Accomodation definition. Not sure but assume { told once never assume anything] A bunk - A john - a cooking stove - A sink.

    If there is no multihull in Australia that meets these regs how did Team Australia enter the Brisbane to Gladstone race. Perhaps Wild thing meets Cat 1.

    and perhaps this is why at the present moment all clubs are anti Multis to participate in there races. Instead of them saying no perhaps they should say meet CAT 1 regs

    Vodafone must have escape hatches to race frequently in N.Z. ? and they are going to have to have Cat 1 to leave N.Z. to compete in Australia or even sail outside N.Z.

  11. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Most multis in Australia are privately owned so that places some restrictions on how much you can ask the owners to spend they also have to want to do the race. Sailing from warm to warmer is more attractive to the bulk of multi owners. I'm not sure why there are not more racing multihull syndicates here as it seems like a logical approach to getting a racing boat on the water and to share costs.

    Brisbane to Gladstone Multihull Yacht Race is Cat 2 safety standard not Cat 1. Team Australia and Team Vodafone Sailings ORMA's certainly meet Cat 1 requirements though.


    What safety standards are required for the NZ Coastal Classic?

    btw I don't think Cat 1 regs are an insurmountable problem either but there has to be some enthusiasm.
  12. oceancruiser

    oceancruiser Previous Member

    Have you seen the new Cat 1 regs Jan 2013
    They are alot tougher.


    Team australia not entering the brisbane gladstone race this year. Do you know why.

    Team Australia and team Vodafone - Do they have double escape hatches?

  13. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Good point on safety regs but looking at them it would appear that TVS and TA would meet the Cat 1 regs for their build dates if they have one escape hatch. I'm not sure what happens when you retrofit a craft not currently intended to be Cat 1. Do they take the build date into account or look at what the current rule book specifies? I would assume they would look at the current rules and require compliance.
  14. CT 249
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    CT 249 Senior Member

    About "perhaps this is why at the present moment all clubs are anti Multis to participate in there races".

    Lots of offshore racing clubs have permitted multis in their races, but multis generally haven't joined in significant numbers even when they are allowed.

    In the Sydney area, for example, "cruising" multis have been permitted to race at Avalon SC, RMYC BB, Palm Beach SC, (although PBSC, where I used to sail with Lock Crowther aboard his SS37 Wahoo, is now a mono-only club), MHYC (although the class never took off), Manly YC (eons ago), SHSA, Balmain SC, and the Port Hacking combined clubs.

    So probably roughly half of the yacht clubs in the Sydney area have allowed multis to race.

    Outside of Sydney there's many other clubs that have allowed multis to race. In Lake Mac they are concentrated at Wangi but have been allowed at SLMSC, MPSC, NHTYA, and CBSC at least - more than half the clubs that race yachts. Multis also race with the yachts at the two biggest clubs further north (Yamba and Port Stephens) and have raced at Coffs.

    Down south, multis race with Wollongong and Canberra and have a class of their own at Jervis Bay.

    Multis have been racing with the main Hobart offshore fleet, in the two biggest North Tassy offshore events, in the main South Australian offshore event (Port Lincoln), and in Perth they have been raced at several clubs including Mandurah (including Race Week, WA's biggest such event), Fremantle and smaller clubs. They have also been raced for decades in the Marlay Point and used to have a class in NSW trailer yacht events.

    So at a very rough count, something like half of the "offshore" or "cruiser/racer" clubs have allowed multis to race. And yet in almost all cases they form a very small proportion of the fleet, arguably too small to really work satisfactorily, so it's no wonder that some clubs exclude them, just as many cat clubs exclude windsurfers and monos, some cat/tri organisations (inc NZMYC and the French transatlantic events) exclude proas, saloon racing car events exclude open wheelers, bicycle events exclude recumbents, etc etc etc.

    On the topic of safety gear, it's interesting to note that the multis are allowed to use outboards in Cat 2 races but monos aren't. The ORMA 60s have inboards but from what I could see when I was lucky enough to be allowed to go through some of them after the Transat years ago, it appeared that they must have been under very different accomodation requirements to those the monos must fit, and the lifeline requirements the multis had to meet were also much more relaxed than those for monos. I'm NOT saying that the tris are less safe than the monos, but they do seem to get some benefits under the safety regs.

  15. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I agree with CT249 in the sense that I don't think the problem is anti multi sentiment. I'd like to see some ocean racing in multis come back in Australia It will be a small niche but it would be great to see a few more suitably equipped yachts involved and some more regular events to cater for them.
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