Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. bearflag
    Joined: May 2010
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    I think it will be even more so once the wiki get a bit more developed. The website if the right factors play out right has the potential to be a fairly definitive codex of information relating to the subject.

    However, that will require some policing.
     
  2. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Since I had been on the receiving end of BS insults a few times, I decided to return the favour in kind. :rolleyes:
    I used Bearflag's proposed warning in my web page to warn the uninformed.

    Under the main link DESIGN, there is a sub link called "Designers Recommended" and my views based on experience.
    BUT, I added to that "Designers to Aviod" and here it is and I quote:

    Since my website is very popular amongst new steel boat builders, this was the least I could do to make them aware of this.
     
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  3. wardd
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    wardd Senior Member

    most won't do a search
     
  4. bearflag
    Joined: May 2010
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    Location: Thousand Oaks, California

    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    Are you halfway computer literate?

    Ehhh?

    If you type in almost any boat building/design type question or statement or even some of the other unrelated posts boatdesign.net magically appears near the top.

    The way google and the others work is that the higher the site refers to other sites and how much other sites refer to this one the higher its rating. Boatdesign.net seems to be fairly highly rated.
     
  5. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Brent Swain Member

    My response was blocked( censored )
     
  6. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
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    Location: Great Lakes

    Jeff Moderator

    Your post was a personal attack against other members. There has been far too much of that already in this thread.

    e.g. your statement:
    is a reason your post from 4:05 today was deleted.

    People have asked for responses to specific questions regarding stability, structural calculation, etc. of the boats and plans you are promoting here; it would seem reasonable that if you wish to promote a design or plans on the forum that you have a responsibility to answer other member's questions and concerns about the safety of such.
     
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  7. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Brent Swain Member

    I keep getting blocked. Some one wants people to believe only expensive, labour intensive boats ,which only the rich can afford, are the only option.
     
  8. bearflag
    Joined: May 2010
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    ::thumbsup::

    I approve of this message.

    Hey, Jeff.... what are your thoughts on having an "Engineer's Corner" sort of Category. Where the focus is on proper maths, formulas, and serious engineering. A place for grandmaster NE's can school up and comers a little more rigorously. If such a place existed, it might foster a more rigorous QA for the types of issues that have been plaguing this thread.
     
  9. bearflag
    Joined: May 2010
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    bearflag Inventor/Fabricator

    Illuminatus? Trilaterals? GRU? Masons? Templars? Birthers? Grassy Knollers? 9/11ers?

    People who rant about conspiracies always sound more credible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2010
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Unbelievable,

    even in your rant, you don´t forget your mission.

    Stop whining Brent. My reply on your post was deleted too. Although it was not insulting, just ironic.

    We fight a battle here and our umpire does not allow every weapon, thats it.
    We must accept that.
     
  11. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Thank you. I would like to see those calculations posted, and the set of lines that Brent has promised 'as soon as he can find a scanner'.

    PDW
     
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  12. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Hobart

    pdwiley Senior Member

    How does your posting the basic calculations on stability of the boat design you're selling affect your ability to sell the plans?

    All you're being asked to do is produce the calculations that you claim that you have. It's really simple. Post the information asked for by dskira as a starting point. Post the drawings that you've agreed many times to post 'as soon as you can find a scanner' or explicitly grant permission to anyone who has them to post a copy here.

    It's becoming apparent that you have never done the calculations and your stability claim is totally unsupported by any evidence. Nobody believes your assertion of 175 deg. People who are considering buying your plans should be aware of this.

    PDW
     
  13. wardd
    Joined: Apr 2009
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    wardd Senior Member

    how complicated can the plans for an origami boat be?
     
  14. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    In a nutshell, that's it. We just can't get your "big picture", Brent. We need you to take us in mathematical and scientific methods through each little bit, until we eventually arrive at the claims you have made.

    So, if I built a framed boat using recycled materials & used equipment, fixtures, etc., you still believe that your design would save me a lot of time & money over another design? Now, Wynand said that he did the steelwork on that 34 Van de Stadt in 18 days - correct me if I'm wrong, Wynand - and you state that you can bring your 36 footer to tacked-together stage in 100 hours, correct? So, if I put in an average work day, as I am assuming Wynand did, of 8 hours per day, that's 12.5 days. We have a difference of 5.5 days, but your design isn't welded yet, only tacked. So three days of welding? Is that fair? It seems a bit short, but, now we're down to a difference of 2.5 days. But wait, you did say labour intensive, right? Which do you think is more labour intensive, laying plates on a trestle/cradle/jig or bending plates into position with come-alongs?

    Given the same equipment, the same materials, and the same builder, it seems to me that the Van de Stadt would be easier to build, not cost much more in man-hours, and have a much greater value, because it's a Van de Stadt. Then, of course, there is the knowledge that the Van de Stadt is built to professional designs. One could probably use the example of other designs of 30-something foot steel sailboats, and, in each case, the build time would depend more on the builder than the boat, the materials & equipment would not differ in price, substantially, and one would be working to designs that one had confidence in the safety factor of. What I'm suggesting is that anyone who can afford to build your design can afford to build most other designers' similar-sized design. So, if we are talking about a difference of up to $1,500 in plan prices & another - let's be generous - $500 in extra steel, then the total difference could be as much as $2,000.

    $2,000 to buy plans that have been developed by a professional designer and have structure that is considered by class rules to be safe(or better). Or, looking from another perspective, $2,000 to feel confident that an individual and their family & friends are safe. Money well spent.
     

  15. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Brent, I am on record as supporting your success, and even contradicting others a few times on your side. ( remember arc strikes ? )

    But .... since your designs are so successfull, and you are doing so well in the business, why oh why arn't you prepared to submit the designs for a formal stress analysis, and any other tests that most designers are comfortable with ????

    If your 'gut feeling' and experience show that the design is sound, I bet tests would vindicate your boat designs. If a few flaws show up, then I am sure you would be happy to adjust the design.
     
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