Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Jeff I think your last sentence is very wise.
    But it's my two cents.
    Daniel
     
  2. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I would strongly recommend to read the threads you are going to participate in! It prevents from posting nonsense, like in this case.

    There have been no
    on any of the related threads.
    And BS has no
    to provide! He just promotes a old, proven technique, though to some senseless extend.

    And there has been not one single professional (and only 4 or 5 amateurs) on this board, supporting BS wild claims in the past five years.

    Regards
    Richard

    Jeff,

    I concur, this thread has had its time...........
     
  3. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Vancouver

    welder/fitter Senior Member

    I'd like to suggest the following: Brent is going to continue on pushing his "design" & "philosophy". As I have questions, not answers to the discussion of other methods of "origami construction", how about barring Brent & I from being able to post to this thread - if possible - and keeping the thread open for those who have more to contribute on the subject? I am as keen as anyone else to read more on the topic and would not want to see it die, with only one questionable example discussed. If Wynand has information as to how the Van de Stadt he built performed, If Tad was willing to discuss/promote his Ragsdale 36, & if others, such as Yves Tanton, were willing to contribute their knowledge & opinions, we'd have a very informative thread. I'd like to hear from some European builders and designers, where the method is more commonplace.
    Mike
     
  4. Questor
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    Location: Canada

    Questor Senior Member

    It is somewhat reassuring to hear someone concede that the Origami boat building technique is both old and proven. I'd like to believe that you could just take any 28 foot Trawler design you like , cut 3/16 steel plate to roughly duplicate the exterior surfaces, mount a drive line and hit the water. Twenty years ago I might have tried that. Over the years I've experienced a couple of major project failures. Having been educated by past failures I wouldn't pursue an Origami Trawler project without some very convincing professional output.
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Michael Kasten made some valuable comments on the "frames first or plating first" question. Which is in fact the main question to be discussed here.

    http://www.kastenmarine.com/articles.htm#Metal_Boats

    But, discussed was said, that includes critical questions and comments.........

    The so called "Origami" method is just one way and by no means promoted by BS only. Anton Luft in Germany was another messias in that genre.

    Have a enjoyable read folks.

    Richard
     

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  6. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Likes: 145, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1806
    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    I started a new thread covering different disciplines of steel boat building techniques.
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/me...-steel-building-methods-34211.html#post389668

    The reason is that this thread is clouded with BS rant etc and people will not read through about 730 posts to get the real clear "picture" about origami.

    My aim is to create a quality thread where any person can get quality info based on the views, advice and years of experience of the many professional on this board.
    Let BS and his few followers carry on with this thread and impress themselves with the logic of claims made by BS and bask in that glory.
    At least this way we will not get insulted, called ****** etc etc and share info in a gentleman manner to the appreciative.

    Wynand over and out on the origami thread....
     
  7. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: Vancouver

    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    For Mike Johns and Lyndon,the 2 aussies who gave me negative points which I don't care about:

    I used the quote in question and in context it's a libellous and slanderous statement warning people that "Brent says his designs fail".
    My brother is a lawyer.....

    BTW,explain how that pipe will go though that plate.Better yet,conduct an experiment,film it and post on Youtube.

    Well as a matter of fact I did read the thread,which consists of:
    -many misdirections
    -dozens of people with different questions/agendas of which maybe 3 or 4 actually know what they're on about
    -several different convoluted topics

    And as Jeff pointed out,those who carry themselves on a high horse are telling half truths as well.

    All going after a guy who is getting controversy,which is free advertising for him.You see,most people like it when they see controversial method,product etc.

    IF Brent truly is the horrible person buiding boats in which hundreds of people may die in a rogue wave maybe sometime in the future...then just bury this thread.
    Any time Brent posts,just bump other posts up.There's enough of you out there.I'm sure he won't care too much.

    But tell this to an acquaintance,who sailed all over the world in a Brent boat,in horrible storms on capes and such and sold his boat so as the entire trip was free.

    Though I don't know him at all,in one way we are similar-we work very little and enjoy our lives.

    Funny thing, while all of you are riled up,posting incessantly-Brent's probably out fishing and prawning.

    And that's where I'll be.
     
  8. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 1,743
    Likes: 170, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 2078
    Location: California

    troy2000 Senior Member

    Waving lawyers about now, are we? My sister-in-law is a lawyer too, but we don't talk about it much. It's just a cross the family has to bear....:rolleyes:

    I added some more negative rep; you deserve it. No one ever said a pipe will go literally go through that plate. You did exactly what Brent has become infamous for doing online: you twisted someone's reasonable statement around until it made no sense, then attacked them for it. As Brent has repeatedly done with his repeated nonsense about 'failure in four hours.' Are you sure you aren't Brent? Take a good look in the mirror....

    Until you start discussing what people actually say and mean instead of your demented misreading of it, there's no point in even debating you.
     
  9. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    Well Troy has already said it really.

    The quote was "Brent says that NA's say that his design fails" it was an illustration of Brent's own tactics it's not what you posted above so don't twist it any more.


    I took points of you for being patronizing. I waited for a day to see if you'd change your post after it was all so nicely expalined to you that you were grievously wronging someone. But you didn't

    As apex was saying we need to start using the points system on people like Brent who post stupid statements. And you were acting as another BS acolyte with unthoughtful postings and accusations.

    You directly attacked a poster without reading the prior post that made it relevant and correct. And you can't admit that you were wrong in your interpretation! And you are quite wrong.

    Nor do you understand what has been said about the mast support. You just don't understand it.

    Nor do you have any idea whats gone before and just why some of us are getting so cheesed off with Brent. I beleive the only way of exposing Brent was through this kind of exchange.
     
  10. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Hobart

    pdwiley Senior Member

    Brent started that caper so that opens the way for others to respond in kind. Personally I'd prefer a lot heavier moderation that just deleted his distortions rather than have this degenerate but - whatever.

    In this country we have a law called the Trade Practices Act and it's an offence to make false or misleading statements. It's also an offence to not use the 'best practice' known and accepted by the relevant professional community. I used to manage multi-million dollar projects where we had to keep the Trade Practices Act in mind at all times so yeah, I do know what I'm talking about.

    Brent's claims re stability of his designs fail BOTH counts. It's lucky he's not in Australia...

    As for fishing, prawning etc. Big deal. Apex1 does the same. So do a number of others. So do I, in a minor way. I'm about the same age as Brent I think, and I got PAID to go places and do things that other people had to pay big money to do. I also own a lot more than a 31' boat and I'm not reliant on a pension from a Government that I avoided paying taxes to.

    PDW
     
  11. Northman
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    Location: Norway

    Northman Junior Member

    Mike, I can't see why you should be excluded from posting, but otherwise I second all you said. We share the same interests, it seems. I have learned a lot over the last 700 + posts and hope to learn more. Hope this thread doesn't die and if it takes some harsh moderating from Jeffs side I welcome this very much!
    My 2 c.
    Walter
     
  12. MikeJohns
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: Australia

    MikeJohns Senior Member

    You don't need any expense really. There are class rules now that you could follow such as GL. They guide you through the support offered by a chine for example to repalce a longitudinal frame.
    Class societies are conservative and usually pretty safe. Those sorts of rules are there for free. I can help interpret them if you want to have a go.
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Right W/F,

    and I have such a dumb feeling that the "waterdrop" is just another name for BS. He used that tactic several times already.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  14. peter radclyffe
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: europe

    peter radclyffe Senior Member


    Although that reminds me of the brewery foreman who showed up at the door of one of his workers, hat in hand, to tell the man's wife he had slipped into a vat of beer and drowned.

    this happened at my grandfathers wine vintners, in the strand london, but the guy died
     

  15. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
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    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Correct me if I'm wrong.
    Questioning Brent's claim about extensive cruising 11months a year.. So just to follow the dates of his postings in 2008 he might have been out (of the reach of internet) 2 weeks March (2-28 to 3-14) 3 weeks round July/August (7-16 to 8-6) and a couple more in November (10-26 to 11-13).
    Of course I could have understood this totally wrong and he might also been busy just with pulling together some steel plates and is cruising with hot Iridium connection the rest of the year..
    :rolleyes:
     
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