Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. LyndonJ
    Joined: May 2008
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    LyndonJ Senior Member

    Even your zealous followers are going to have trouble swallowing that :( :(




    While your engineering skills are to design by trial and error. It breaks you beef it up. Trouble is if it breaks in mid ocean mid storm. That's the issue, it's one of safety. And the Rule makers considered this but you rejected there wisdom for what? For a handful of completely misunderstood principles. Arcs in compression, stiffness in curves adequate to do away with transverse frames, etc etc

    All supported with anecdotes with the same level of honesty and integrity you apply to everything else. In other words it's BS.

    And you proably won't since they design ships workboats and large leisure boats built by pro yards. You might even have travelled o some of the boats they've been involved with, You won't see any from me either I'm only a professional structural engineer (civil) not a NA. But what does that have to do with it? You've probably never seen us shoot a moose, does that mean you can say we are bad shots? That's what your logic is like dude, it's all mangled garbage.

    There's not one engineering trained person on this board disagreeing with the criticisms leveled at your poor structural design, should say something shouldn't it. There's not one trained welder agreeing with your welding statements...says something else too. Theres no one expounding the virtues of Brent Swain except Brent Swain himself, and you do that lots and try to put everyone else down. Hubris rules ok.


    These are the torture tests you have been shown to lie about wholessale. Like one of your boats bashing through hundreds of yards of 5 inch ice after being frozen in, being washed over hundreds of meters of reef, of bashing in 6, 8 12, (varies) surf for 16 days etc etc
    ******** is no substitute for engineering. Except to marketers
    Stop the lies the distortions and the deceit and talk sense. That's all anyone ever asked you to do. All this attempted character assassination just shortens you own noose. You just end up lynching yourself and any supporters you have along with you here. How dense can anyone be to think that these sort of debating tactics work here.
     
  2. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Does it matter? Hopefully one in Canada though; we don't need to import more of that sort of thing.:rolleyes:
     
  3. welder/fitter
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    Any wonder why people respond in kind to this A-hole?

    I don't recall my Cal330 listing more than an inch or two when I stepped aboard, so she must've been self-righting to 175deg., as well. If I were 300lbs, or 100 lbs., & did the same, what would that say about self-righting capabilities, Brent?

    The reason that you don't see my designs around our local waters is that, despite probably having more designs than you, I'm not irresponsible enough to publish and/or sell them, without a full understanding of how safe they are. I do have to credit you for my start into learning how to properly design a boat, however, as - though I've been drawing boats of various types & sizes for decades - I now understand that there is more to boat design than I, or you, know.

    Btw, you have never been a certified welder nor have you ever completed any Steel-Fabricator/Ironworker/Boilermaker program. You have never been CWB certified to weld any process, any position, etc. . You have never been employed at Canron as a Steel Fabricator, or at Mainland, as same. For Local person whom wish to challenge this, the Ironworkers 712(shop) represents steelworkers at Canron. The United Steelworkers (was local 152(?) - now District 3) represented steelworkers at Mainland.

    Before you go calling anyone else a liar, I suggest you recant your own b.s. on this thread. You were not a fabricator of any description, you have never performed U.T. welds, You were a labourer, ONLY! End of that discussion; you lose! Kind of blows a hole in that belief that Brent has never lied to you, "junk2lee", doesn't it? How many people have entered into having him build a boat for them, using this kind of B.S.? Btw, I can still hear my source from Canron laughing about this, as I type, but now it's time to buy him a beer, or two!
     
  4. welder/fitter
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    Not even if we threw in some beer?:D
     
  5. LyndonJ
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    LyndonJ Senior Member

    The deceit, the lies the distortions the rudeness.

    It's clear by now that Brent isn't just a mild fibber he's a major con artist. If he was just pedaling his plans to the unwary you could add a rider saying "hey guys beef it up a bit" But BS actively discourages any sensible alterations on the basis that his boats are perfect. But they aren't. They are terribly designed and Brent calculates nothing. Sure he throws numbers around but they are inevitably so wrong its mind boggling.

    Brent builds these boats for what $10k CAD plus food and board and does the butchery job shown on the video. That's why he's fast cause he's careless.

    Every statement that he makes turns out to be either hugely distorted or simply made up. He did that with his stability claims, simply lied about their derivation, that's the worst part of his BS. It's not just immoral it's a significant safety issue.
     
  6. junk2lee
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    junk2lee Junior Member

    Well,not you.But the builders I've met have been notably able to think in their right minds That is not to say they couldn't also use their left sides of their brain as well!
     
  7. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    We wouldn't take him if you threw in enough beer to float his boat for a stability test.

    Although that reminds me of the brewery foreman who showed up at the door of one of his workers, hat in hand, to tell the man's wife he had slipped into a vat of beer and drowned.

    The widow burst into tears, "ah....the poor man; 'e niver stood a chance."

    And the foreman answered, "beggin' yer pardon, ma'am, but I'll 'ave to disagree. 'E climbed out twice to take a pee...."

    Hmmm... can you guarantee Brent would be in the boat when we inverted it and gave it the same stability test he gave his model?
     
  8. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I don't know what right brain vs left brain has to do with anything; seems to me you're trying to muddy the waters here. Save the cuteness for your Facebook page.

    Nor do I know why you dragged the Vikings into this.
    The Vikings had many hundreds of years of experience building proven designs, making incremental improvements and perfecting them over the generations. Mentioning them in the same breath as Brent Swain, his pamphlets for amateurs, and his 'testing' of stability by holding a small model upside down in still water, is an insult to the Vikings.

    I built a model of a 30' sharpie cruiser this year. It draws a scale 9 inches of water amidships, and it could pass Brent's stability test.
     
  9. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Junk, I had put the quote after my reply about BS rant, and the emphasis was "something to ponder about". I do not know if people in BC ever heard of the power of marketing and the influence of dissatisfied customers, regardless of type of business....:confused:
    I belief you are just as ignorant as BS and perhaps you are him....not impossible since he once made the remark that a certain member is in fact a couple of posters.

    OTOH, after well over 700 posts posted here, does it not seems strange you are the only supporter for BS and his BS (********):?: Perhaps there are more closet supporters to shy to show their balls and positive BS. But then again, birds of a feather flocks together.
    Or as we say in my mother tongue: "jy is sommer net 'n dom kak soeker met niks beter om te doen nie." You can take the trouble deciphering it yourself and take the message to heart.

    To all other members, I apologize for losing my cool to Junk, but one gets tired with ignorance and ********, and he an BS does not deserve better anymore, since it is the way they dish it out to others trying to be informative, helpful etc.
     
  10. Wynand N
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    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    This is worrying to say the least Richard. It was a good point raised:confused:
     
  11. Jeff
    Joined: Jun 2001
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    Jeff Moderator

    I'm sorry if my moderation is imperfect, either too light handed at times or too heavy handed today as I have tried to clean this thread up a bit.

    I did not feel it is good for the forum when language is used such as (quoting from apex1's previous post which I deleted) "snakeoil salesman " ... "How is it possible that such a proven *****, liar, cheater, has still positive reputation points?"

    I fear regardless of the circumstances, allowing such language, focusing on a person rather than the facts and evidence, sets a bad tone. If allowed, then others and new people start to respond in kind, and it would get worse and worse if left unchecked.
     
  12. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Jeff,

    I believe what you say is true and I for one have already starting to loose my patience in responding to innuendos trying to make one look like a fool or lair.
    That said, all of us except BS and Junk2lee, tried to be constructive by pointing out (to BS and laymen) the importance of sound engineering principles and the application thereof but get ridiculed by BS as ******, even when someone offer to help free, he is insulted as being biased against him (BS), which is absolute nonsense.

    Nobody had said origami is a bad way of building boats, on the contrary, all of the posters are at once that it is an easy alternative PROVIDED sound engineering / scantling principles are followed and integrated into the building of such boats.
    Personally I still belief that it is an ugly boat though due to the limitation of hull shape.

    I (or anyone else for that matter) have no desire to "steal" any potential BS customers and by the way Im retired, but I consider it my duty to inform any potential steel boat owners out there about the principles of good boatbuilding practice / scantiling that is definite lacking from BS boat as was evidence on photos elsewhere in this tread.

    Good engineering practices get ridiculed by BS with his unfounded and warped perception of engineering facts - he had shown many times over years he is not capable of doing numbers - and it is these untruths he used to ******** people into buying his design, add further insult to that by claiming that narrow boxlike boat has 175 Degrees positive righting moment one can called such tactics many names, and "snake oil" may fit the bill.
    In fact, these claims are criminal and peoples life's may just depends on such false statements.
    If a qualified engineer make such claims on unfounded facts, he will be prosecuted criminally for endangering someones life....What makes BS different??

    It is misinformation and untruths BS uses in selling his designs that get people on the boil in this forum, and when politely corrected, one get called a ***** of some sorts by former.
    MikeJohns comes to mind - I salute his professionalism and patience he has shown towards BS over many threads and more so in this tread, even offered his services for free, and still get pissed on by BS and ridiculed.

    I for one believe that this tread has served its purpose and the facts are on the table for all to see and to make an informed decision. The tread was about Origami method, but BS has hijacked it with his same old rant and ignorance you can find all over the internet on boat sites.

    If this tread continues, it may serve a good purpose when experts in their respective fields give factual information, calculations, opinions to make Origami a safe method of building. Not demolition derbies, humble bee and other fables to make statements and calling experts idiots.

    There are many good treads that can be started on metal boats, but never happens - I for one have a lot to share with new builders and amateurs - BUT, as soon as a tread on metal boats starts, BS comes along with his same gospel and rant, making any other boats off as monstrosities, condemning sound boatbuilding techniques to name some trolling.
    There is no way one can have a constructive and informative debate in threads with such elements added.

    My two cents worth.
     
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  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Jeff I understand your intention and accept your worries.

    But how can one react appropriate on BS´s attacks, staying polite?

    It was BS calling proven experts (each in his own field) cheaters and ******.

    It was BS attacking Wynand by stating he would cheat his customers by building in more structure than necessary, therefore charging too much.

    BS called Ad Hoc and Mike Johns biased and unexperienced, cheating their clients by making structures overly complicated.

    He called me a cheater, employing cheap slave labourers in unsafe environment.

    It is BS hijacking every single thread related to metal boat building and serving his drivel and unproven / unsafe bullsh!t, thereby making it hard for the hands on experts like Wynand, Welder / fitter et al. to provide serious advice.

    And so on..........


    The entire metal boat related sector of this forum has lost value since that dangerous snakeoil salesman spills his poison here.

    It is his dangerous drivel we are fighting against, not the method he promotes.
    He is risking the safety or life of innocent amateurs with his ridicolous statements and stories.


    How can we stay polite?

    Richard
     
  14. Jeff
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    Jeff Moderator

    I believe this thread has some informative value, but I fear that like http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/classification/transverse-frame-calculation-32584.html it is once again stuck with no new facts or numbers and too much negative hostility (I've tried to clean it up some but still there is an excessive and unproductive amount of attacks in this thread.)

    I really appreciate those who have offered constructive facts and informative observations despite, who have done the heavy lifting so to speak and maintained the constructive discussion to shed what light has been shed. I hesitate to close it as it does serve as a central spot for the origami discussion and there has been some interest on the forum as seen by the people who popped in considering building one. But if the namecalling, innuendos, insults, putting words in someone else's mouth, etc. continue I fear you are right and maybe this thread has run its course.
     

  15. Questor
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    Questor Senior Member

    It seems that on the internet everyone with a credible alternative idea is surrounded by naysayers, scoffers and blasphemers. If Brent could rise above the mob and strictly promote his concepts and designs he'd probably sell more plans and gain more dedicated followers.
     
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