Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. welder/fitter
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    So, what you are saying is that you know that several of Brent's boats have been certified by "Transport Canada marine surveyors"? That several of his boats have been inspected by marine safety officers and that they have no problem with their construction?

    That several 55 footers have been built to completion and sailed distances?

    How do you quantify several, "junk2lee", in each case? 1? 2? 3? 4? 5? more?

    That Jim and Alex did all of the welding on Alex's boat?(Which, by extension means that Jim stood by and watched Alex create those welding abortions?)

    Are you saying that Brent is not lying about Alex's boat being fully detailed, including flame-cut edges being dressed, when I saw it in May of 2008? That Brent has always given a table of offsets with his drawings? That Brent has cruised the North and South Pacific for 11 months of each year?(or anything even closely resembling this?)

    No one, here, as far as I can see, has suggested that Brent has never sailed offshore, that Brent has never designed or built a boat, etc. . His incredible exaggerations, his insulting manner, his constant thread hi-jacking to sell his designs. These are what people take issue with. He attacks; others respond.
    Then, there is the issues of the safety of his design and quality of his construction.

    No, I stand by my words, Brent is what he accuses others of being. He is a liar. He doesn't really have an understanding of how to determine how safe/unsafe his designs are. He is a snake oil salesman, spreading his miracle cure around the boat building world, without fully knowing of it's ingredients.He talks **** about others because, in his mind and the mind of the faithful or uninitiated, this makes him the "better alternative". He is like the proverbial classroom bully, but some of us are not so easily bullied.

    As for you, junk2lee, please take the step from "lurker" to sharing with us who you are, what you know, so that the perspective of your Brent-like way of looking at these discussions with Brent can be appreciated. Or are you just "one of the flock, here to bleat the master's message"? I have been both open and honest, here, as have others. If you know me, you know that I will give you respect and credibility for what I know or believe you have to offer.

    I would much rather see Brent go off to do his thing and leave us to discuss other designers, builders of this method of construction and to debate
    whether "forming while pulling the hulls together" is worthwhile, without interruption. To be honest, if Brent would agree to quit kicking the proverbial **** out of other designers, builders, etc., ergo, discrediting them, I wouldn't bother with him. Until that time...
    Mike
     
  2. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    If there are some boats done and used doesn't mean they are safe and sound.. might be, or might be not. Depends much what's inside.. like bulkheads and weight.. and the fact is that without properly done calcs you can't know the outcome and thats what counts..
     
  3. junk2lee
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    junk2lee Junior Member


    If we must chew cud,
    I said "not much more".
    I said "as an aside".

    Sure,I wish now I'd said "not much more than a fire and some rocks" so they could forge an axe,cut down some trees,split off a batten,twine the bark into string,hang a rock as a plumb-bob and so forth...but I AM sure there were no lasers or drafting boards or calculators or tomes or even Naval Architects within a mile.
    Not to say these things are useless;just to say that a boat has been! and can still be built without a certified NA's approval.

    I do appreciate that this is not the argument here....rather I see a builder/ designer "called to the carpet" by those that judge themselves qualified while the pugnacious Maverick does not accept this.

    (Strangely)is anyone arguing about the term "Origami"? which is all about folds and creases,I think?
     
  4. larry larisky

    larry larisky Previous Member

    you forget this one :D

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Brent is being asked again and again to provide evidence of his “claims”. Claims which people like you, have clearly bough hook-line and sinker. Just because you accept his faith based approach to design, do not automatically assume others do and must. From reading the replies on this and the transverse frame thread, a very high percentage of others do not accept the faith-based do not question me nor my methods , MO.

    We asked him to provide evidence, real evidence but all his replies are anecdotes and words, endless words with no meaning. He has failed repeatedly to provide any evidence to any of his claims. He is the one making the claims, no one else.

    Tomthumb has written (very well I might add too) and shown some excellent example of this “she’ll be aright mate…..oh and don’t question me” philosophy. As have others such as Welder/fitter, Wynand et al.

    quality BS joint.JPG

    You call this, quality?:-

    If this is your benchmark of an experienced craftsman, someone who works a maximum of 1 month per year and producing the shocking quality and procedures that we are being shown from his sales promo videos, then may I suggest you take off your rose tinted glasses and go down to your local professional shipyard or very least, welding training centre. Just one hour spent in their presence should convince you how myopic your statement is, which I can only put down to lack of experience. Which is fair enough. Not everyone works professionally in this field, and thus has a limited view of what is or is not acceptable.

    You mean like this?

    LR Front page.jpg

    I think it is time you woke up and smelled the coffee!

    Here are typical sets of rules for vessel; from small to medium sized boats and then up to bulk carriers and tankers etc. As well as small boats and for yachts which are not always part of the ‘bigger’ set of rules.

    SCVC front page.jpg yacht construction rules-1.jpg yacht construction rules.jpg yacht construction rules-2.jpg LR Front page SSC.jpg

    Since you’re inexperienced, you are clearly not aware of the endless rules and regulations that exist. They exist for the safety of the vessel and the safety of those onboard. Consider yourself informed. Thus, if you accept any boat any type/class of boat from a designer or builder that has not been designed and built in accordance with an accepted standard of conformity, then walk away. If you do not, you are wasting your money and putting your life at risk. Your choice…
     
  6. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    Jean Marc 50 and Pangaea 50, yes, everyone can view these two boats on the origamimagic site. Please, share with us Brent's involvement in these boats. Now, I believe that you are trying to mislead people.


    (Btw, small point, they are both "55 footers"?)
     
  7. TomThumb28
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    TomThumb28 Junior Member

    I didn't say they were of unequal length, you were trying to say they were unequal length to cover your ***! LOL! I'm saying they were of unequal height at the stem because one half-hull was 5/8" farther forward relative to the other and therefore, joined on the same centerline, 5/8" taller at the bow. You could pull the bow over to starboard to get them to match up because half hulls are torsionaly floppy as you have pointed out elsewhere.

    Was this done? Please answer the simple question.

    Obviously you would put the edge up on blocks to grind it. Stop with your strawman BS.

    Does Skenes tell you how to draw lines? Still waiting on those...

    No, it’s called a mistake and there’s no shame in it if you can admit it when you realize you’re wrong...

    BS, a good 7" or 9" angle grinder goes through 3/16 plate edges like butter. I could have done it in a day working hard. Definitely if I had a helper with a second grinder which I could hire for half of what you charge. Less time still if I had rented a plasma cutter to cut the edges, or bought one with the money I saved by not hiring you.
     
  8. junk2lee
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    junk2lee Junior Member


    Lurkers don't post.
    "are you saying?"....No.
    I'm not saying what I don't know.I have my own boat,my own obsession.It's not about steel upon which I am not qualified to speak.
    But seeing as my friend has been attacked on details I DO know about,I will not have it so.Without quoting again,people have variously intimated that the boats he mention do not exist,were 21 feet,never on a beach,and so on.

    As to "several"consult a dictionary.
    I post these pictures because I know these boats.
    As to Alex's boat,I haven't said anything so why ask?I might have met Alex once or twice.I don't keep up with all the Steel Crowd but some of em,I know as friends.
    As to Brent,he has helped me with some good ideas.I like good ideas,even if I WILL translate them for my own needs.And some of his ideas are not to my taste....and because I get the feeling your terrier-like attention will grasp THIS and shake it for any flavoured spittle dried upon it,I don't like his anchor winch.

    I get the feeling you've stepped out with the wrong foot on the wrong person.
     
  9. junk2lee
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    junk2lee Junior Member

    Since part of this post is a reply to my own,I will consider myself informed as to your lights...."Claims which people like me...etc.""If you do not, you are wasting your money and putting your life at risk. Your choice…"

    What money?What are you talking about?What boat am I building?Where did I say I was building a boat?What comment have I as to welding?None.As to regulations,I'm aware of many that are for the safety of persons at sea.Well and good.The Titanic,and so many others were not tragedies in vain.

    ...If the Perfect Ship or Boat has already been designed by regulation,well! everybody else might as well go home and die.Design Entropy has arrived.There's nothing more to do.No ship shall ever sink ever again.Hubris rules.
     
  10. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Where do i say you are building a boat? However:-

    Thus, did you check the design has it been designed in accordance with accepted levels and standards of safety and built to such accepted levels of quality? Surely you asked yourself these questions before you bought your boat?

    How about this:-

    This implies you have knowledge and skills in the structural design and fabrication of building boats. Otherwise how can you qualify this statement?

    There is no such thing as the “perfect ship”, never shall be. It is only perfect for the owner that satisfies the SOR. Even you acknowledge this simple fact:

    Once something is an obsession, commonsense and logic no longer applies. Thus, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
     
  11. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    Well, I give you credit for responding to a post, yet, saying little of value. I know what "several" can be quantified as, by virtue of that which it is not, ergo, 1 is one, 2 is a couple, 3 or 4 are a few...

    I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about Brent's winch design. Why bring it up?

    As you have said that Brent doesn't lie, quoting my post in your post, one can only surmise that you are suggesting that I have mis-quoted Brent, somewhere. You're trying to throw up red-herrings, here. Brent made each and every one of those points.

    You take issue with my post, wherein, I am saying - and offering Brent's own statements as evidence - that the whole 55 footers comment is bs. If you do not wish to debate whether the other quotes are more bs, fine, because I appreciate that you can't/won't. So, sticking to the only quote that you used, tell us what involvement Brent had in the design and/or construction of those two boats.

    See, I am trying to be fair. I know the stories of MungoI and MungoII, and have not suggested that they did not each end up on the beach, with different outcomes. I didn't suggest anything about 21 footers, etc. . Yet, you quoted my post to make your point, which leads me to believe that you are the one with some personal vendetta. See, I don't care what you, Brent or anyone else builds. But, if you sell some floating question mark to another, or push a design/construction method that you can't prove is safe on another, I consider you to be a scum, a thief, a liar, a charlatan, in other words, dishonest.
     
  12. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    junk2lee, how do you defend a man who derides those who actually do the all-important final welding on his boats as being of lesser intelligence than he is, and mocks them for actually working for a living?

    That's a clear window into his soul and his character, and I'm not impressed with what I see. The mark of a con man is his conviction that work is for suckers who aren't as smart as he is.

    Judging by his posts in this thread, Brent's pride is based more on his ability to avoid working, than it is on the quality of his work. I wouldn't touch anything created by a man with an attitude like that--not a boat, not a house, not even a wedding cake.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2010
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  13. larry larisky

    larry larisky Previous Member

    junk2lee the spy who came in from the brent cold :D
     
  14. junk2lee
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    junk2lee Junior Member

    Here,I am quoting your post again

    I took that to be another insinuation that these boats do not exist,being in a list without further comment except"The only person on these forums whom I can honestly say I believe "Lies like a mountie", is Brent."So,pictures followed.

    and next,there was more about "several"

    What Brent said in your quote-within-quote is"None have transverse framing."
    and now you ask me to extrapolate as in...

    ....c'mon.Give it up.

    as
    I think it makes sense in context.
    Oh,just a detail and FYI,MungoI went on TWICE.(#225)when I posted those pictures in response to Lyndon J's post #223.
     

  15. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I think junk2lee most likely means well, and honestly believes we're being unfair. But I doubt he's paid as much attention to the things Brent said as he has to the first incredulous, then impatient, then increasingly irate and hostile responses.

    Brent is reaping what he's sown. He's spent a lot of time mocking genuinely professional designers, builders and craftsmen, and it should be no surprise that people are to the point where they're looking around for a virtual piece of rope....
     
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