Origami steel yacht construction

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by origamiboats, Nov 30, 2001.

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  1. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Here is another:-

     
  2. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Why must you always distort my or anyone else views to to support you tactics:?:

    I never said that frames are an absolute necessity. What I always advocate is for a boat to be properly designed with the necessary calculations made and proper society scantling rule applied. That also goes without saying to be well build as well......
    The Dix 38 is designed in access of ABS scantling rule.

    Just in case you do not understand frameless building which seems to be the case; although a hull get build frameless, it gets its scantling in the form of calculated spaced longitudinal stringers (stringer sizes also calculated), transverse floors, keels, tanks semi and full bulkheads etc - all again calculated to be of sufficient strength.

    I never confessed and over the last 6 years on this very forum you will find photos and posts of mine re frameless boats, especially the Dix 38 I had built frameless with radius chine. I bet my balls you would not be able to pull such a feat.:rolleyes:

    BS
    Holy ****, that gonna be heavy:D :D How are you gonna support all that expanses of flat plate. On that size scale even 3/8 plate is very flexible.

    I had built both a Dix 57 and Dix 65 with 4mm hull plate and 3mm deck plate in 1991 and they are still in excellent condition after cruising the globe. But, something you would not understand, they were design under a scantling rule and built as such.
     
  3. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    What a laugh:D :D , Do one actually get a lesser intelligent people than BS:?: :?:

    And not to mention the quote of BS posted by Ad Hoc. I need a new keyboard now after spilling my coffee over it reading this when I could not help myself laughing my *** off.

    Finally, winners knows when to stop....
    BS, just go away quietly and safe some face if you still have any left. With this tread you are on a suicide mission and many people - in excess of 74500 people viewed this tread already - will by now know the real BS of your silly explanations about boat design and will take there business elsewhere. OTOH, should this tread goes on indefinitely, the board will actually save a lot of people in future a lot of heartache making the wrong choices or to be taken by your gullible methods
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2010
  4. magwas
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    magwas Senior Member

    Around 14 tons without keels and skeg, nearly 16 tons with it.

    I could not resist to draw a BS style hull. Not much details yet, the deck is just the same 3/8 th (actually I calculated with 10mm at 8 g/cm3). The keels and the skeg are double layer.

    The draft of the empty hull is what seen on the linesplan.

    The good side is that without any tweaking its dynamic stability is 110 degrees :)
     

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  5. terhohalme
    Joined: Jun 2003
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    Location: Kotka, Finland

    terhohalme BEng Boat Technology

    You are only guessing, the hull must be a lot wider. Where did you see the lines plan?
     
  6. magwas
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    magwas Senior Member

    Okay, here is the same with 5.79m beam. Or what beam do you want?

    It is 19.4 tons, 18 tons without keel and skeg.
    Maximum dynamic heeling angle: 90 deg.
    Now the displacement is 22.8 tons, so more than 3 tons are not accounted for in the drawing. It means that stability could be wildly different at the end.

    I made the linesplan from scratch.
     

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  7. TomThumb28
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    TomThumb28 Junior Member

    It was not late 90’s, Alex started this thread in 2001 and he was still talking about building a 40’er. I bought the DVD in 2006 which wasn’t that long after it came out. I don’t remember steel prices well enough to know if that helps or hurts your argument but it’s still inaccurate.

    Ok, I’ve just watched the video again to refresh my memory since it’s been a couple years and I was curious if I was wrong about the grinding. It appears that some high spots were touched up (barely) but large areas were not and still have slag hanging off them.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I’m guessing the conversation at the building site went something like…

    Alex: “Hey Brent, is this ground enough?”

    Brent: “WTF are you doing, don’t you know that grinding edges is a bourgeois construct designed to thwart the glorious nautical aspirations of the proletariat?!”

    …or something to that effect. Pretty ugly.


    A poor choice of words, what I meant was that you looked like you were just drawing freehand with the aid of a batten within a few reference marks, not fairing coordinates properly. Alex is even commenting at this point in the video that it doesn’t matter if the lines of the bow and stern match the plans so long as the plates match each other! No wonder you’re drawing with a freakin blunt soapstone in the rain!

    [​IMG]

    Shape doesn’t matter! I wonder how that affects buoyancy, stability? Oh wait, you don’t have any lines or stability calculations! I don’t want to put too fine a point on this but just to recap: You design boats with no lines, no stability curve, but it doesn’t matter because you don’t follow your own plans anyway! Stunning!


    Here is the overhang at the stern, it’s more like 5/8” not 2” so I apologize for exaggerating.

    [​IMG]

    But it’s still enough to affect the bow.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It is not symmetrical and it’s just another example of pointlessly shoddy workmanship, especially with all your talk of symmetry of frameless hulls and the most galling thing about it is that you charge journeyman’s rates for this crap! When I first heard you charge $50 an hour I thought “Hey, he’s a pro and he says he works fast, it sounds reasonable.” Then I was shocked when I saw the video and saw that you’re only fast because your work is crap and you do a bad job of what anyone could do themselves. I hope that anybody reading this is smart enough not to fall for your false economics. You could hire a competent welder off craigslist for half what Brent charges. Or, for the same $50 an hour you could hire a competent welder and two labourers and you’d almost have the same setup Wynand did when he was building professionally! Yes, you too could join the League of Capitalist Exploiters! Don’t forget to wax your mustache and polish your monocle. :rolleyes:


    We’ll see, I think you may have shot yourself in the foot by posting your crazyness for all to see. I see you intend to collect a pension. How much tax have you paid in your life I wonder? Good thing there are “ultra conservatives” around to pick up the slack. :p
     
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  8. larry larisky

    larry larisky Previous Member

    brent said he never really work since he was 20 yo, how can he get a pension from the government?
    he said we are stupid to work. well i suppose he get power for his tools, so some people works to make the power available, and the tools available.........
    and so on.
    what a childish comment.
    does he suffers from the peter pan syndrome?
     
  9. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I'm afraid he has a terminal case of "I may have to grow older, but they can't make me grow up!"
     
  10. Skovian
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    Location: Portsmouth, VA

    Skovian Junior Member

    Way back when, I was interested in the origami concept. I bought both the book and DVD. The DVD is every bit as appalling as it's been made out to be. Welding in the dirt? Perhaps the minerals improve the crystaline structure of the steel or something. Back in my shipyard days, I would have been fired and prosecuted if I tried any of that.

    I have followed this thread from the beginning but the best parts are these:

    ROTFLOLUIPMR!!!!!!!!

    Take care
     
  11. peter radclyffe
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    peter radclyffe Senior Member

    Tom your great
     
  12. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    I've got this thing on my ***...

    I've got this thing on my ***...

    Is it a boil? A polyp? A hemorrhoid? Not sure, but it is very irritating & never goes away. Oh sure, I've tried to ignore it, but every so often if begins poking at me, like being jabbed by a pin. I try & ignore it as best I can, as I would much rather focus on the more positive aspects of life, but there it is, still, reminding me of it's existence.

    Sometimes, it oozes a fluid so vile that the stench and mess make me want to vomit. The doctor says that either it must be removed surgically, with a nice clean cut, or I must make the best of things & live with it.

    Interestingly, when talking to a group of men and women, I discover that they have the same problem, and that some of them have been living with this problem for more years than I have. We discuss remedies to remove this awful thing, but remedy after remedy fails.

    As this sac becomes swollen & angry, I give it the odd little squeeze, knowing that it will eventually erupt and spew like a volcano. I am fast reaching the point where I will ask the doctor to remove it, because it has nothing to offer of value, only an itch and a burn. Sometimes, it seems to grow extra heads but, for the most part, it is just one angry, bloody mess, screaming for attention. So, I wrote a poem to the source of my discomfort:

    Oh vulgar boil upon my ***
    Though I find you bold & crass
    I just can't seem to make you see
    That you have nought to offer me

    If you had but a thread of good
    I'd tolerate the bile, I could
    But spewing stench without remorse
    You spit a snake oil I find coarse

    So if attention's what you seek
    I'll squeeze away each time you tweek
    And when you've spent your acrid bile
    My *** will crack a little smile

    Mike ;)
     
  13. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Priceless post Mike:D Kudus to you:cool:
     
  14. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: British Columbia

    Brent Swain Member

     

  15. Brent Swain
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: British Columbia

    Brent Swain Member

    The first photo shows one side looking about an inch lower than the other. The second photo with them much closer together, shows it only a half an inch below the other.
    By the time they are pulled together they lined up perfectly,. which you don't bother to show.


    Ok, I’ve just watched the video again to refresh my memory since it’s been a couple years and I was curious if I was wrong about the grinding. It appears that some high spots were touched up (barely) but large areas were not and still have slag hanging off them.


    They were all ground just before welding.







    A poor choice of words, what I meant was that you looked like you were just drawing freehand with the aid of a batten within a few reference marks, not fairing coordinates properly. Alex is even commenting at this point in the video that it doesn’t matter if the lines of the bow and stern match the plans so long as the plates match each other! No wonder you’re drawing with a freakin blunt soapstone in the rain!


    We couldn't control the weather. Do you claim you could?
    How would you fair a line without a batten?!



    Shape doesn’t matter! I wonder how that affects buoyancy, stability? Oh wait, you don’t have any lines or stability calculations! I don’t want to put too fine a point on this but just to recap: You design boats with no lines, no stability curve, but it doesn’t matter because you don’t follow your own plans anyway! Stunning!


    As I have mentioned the buoyancy in this boat is roughly 1100 lbs per inch immersion. So how much difference is a quarter inch going to make. Nothing compared to the huge differnce in how much stuff two different owners are going to put aboard.
    Dont sweat the petty stuff ( and don't pet the sweaty stuff)




    Here is the overhang at the stern, it’s more like 5/8” not 2” so I apologize for exaggerating.

    I have never had 36 foot plates come exactly the same length. They are often an inch or so longer on one plate than the other. That is the diference you see at the stern.
    Always check plates for square and for length, don't assume anything about the size and shape of the plates you receiv

    But it’s still enough to affect the bow


    It is not symmetrical and it’s just another example of pointlessly shoddy workmanship, especially with all your talk of symmetry of frameless hulls and the most galling thing about it is that you charge journeyman’s rates for this crap! When I first heard you charge $50 an hour I thought “Hey, he’s a pro and he says he works fast, it sounds reasonable.” Then I was shocked when I saw the video and saw that you’re only fast because your work is crap and you do a bad job of what anyone could do themselves. I hope that anybody reading this is smart enough not to fall for your false economics. You could hire a competent welder off craigslist for half what Brent charges. Or, for the same $50 an hour you could hire a competent welder and two labourers and you’d almost have the same setup Wynand did when he was building professionally! Yes, you too could join the League of Capitalist Exploiters! Don’t forget to wax your mustache and polish your monocle. :rolleyes:

    As I have pointed out before, I don't charge $50 an hour , I charge $30 an hour. I get more done in an hour than most fitters would get done in a day or a week for some. At BCIT students, supervised by their instructors, got less done in three weeks than I get done in three days.
    You show me moving the batten into position ,before I get it into position, implying I was marking the line where it was ,before getting it into position. You shown the steel before we have had the chance to grind it , implying we don't grind it before welding. Again and again, you have to deliberately lie to make your point. You are a compulsive ,pathelogical liar. Thank god I never ended up working for you. I never will.




    We’ll see, I think you may have shot yourself in the foot by posting your crazyness for all to see. I see you intend to collect a pension. How much tax have you paid in your life I wonder? Good thing there are “ultra conservatives” around to pick up the slack. :p[/QUOTE]

    All my plans come with a complete set of hull lines, as I have said . You , again, have to lie to make your point.


    Tacks used to hold the hull together, before full welding, are temporary, There is no avoiding grass, mud, etc. After the shell is together ,you clean grind and weld next to them . Then you grind out the original tacks and weld them up.
     
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