On to Paint!

Discussion in 'Materials' started by CatBuilder, May 11, 2012.

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  1. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Hobart

    pdwiley Senior Member

    Local place has one for $500. I'm probably going to buy one. Not only for the all angle part, also you can mix up 4 litres of paint in one go and not stop until you've used the lot. Less hassle than stopping to mix another batch for every litre.

    I used 100 psi to spray most of the boat interior but I was also using a wand and needed to get into tight places with it. The pressure was excessive for any normal spraying I'd agree, but it did enable me to spray quite viscous paint where I needed to get good coverage. I do *not* plan on using this system on the exterior - you're dead right about overspray. I went through quite a lot of filters for my mask.

    PDW
     
  2. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    I'd be using an hvlp spray gun and I have a 2 man operation (could hire a 3rd if will go faster). Speed of application is probably my top priority choosing between roll and tip and spray.

    It's that coat thickness that makes me wonder if roll and tip is faster...

    This is for the exterior only. I am finishing the interior after launch.

    I assume I'll need one man on mixing at all times?
     
  3. pdwiley
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Hobart

    pdwiley Senior Member

    As I said I'm no expert but the paint guy said I'd get a thicker and more even coat with spray than roller and IME (limited) he's right.

    Keep in mind that my experience using rollers etc is limited to house painting not boats (typically I've used water based paint and some oil based) and I doubt we're using anything like the same paint regardless as I'm using high build Jotun 2 pack epoxy for steel.

    I also suspect that my acceptable standard of finish is considerably lower than yours.

    PDW
     
  4. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    You will use much less expensive materials if you roll and tip, both paint and consumables. It goes on very thin,its amazing how little paint you use. We are a typical service shop at a marina with no dedicated spray booth and when we are painting a boat we have to cover all the other boats in the shop and all other work shuts down.

    Steve.
     
  5. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    It is best to have a third person. I call painting controlled chaos. You have limited time on batches, you have to go back and double check for runs, someone might spill container, you might touch something, or you forgot to tape something. That third person is your get this person. It could be anyone but will help concentrate on painting. And perhaps if you can trust person to make batches so much the better.

    I also use the third person to paint the hull under the waterline. If they screw it up it doesn't matter. I also test every batch on the underside before applying on critical areas. Also use it to clean equipment between coats.
     
  6. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    What about effects?

    Those go in the clear coat, right? Can I roll and tip those too?
     
  7. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Got rained out today, so I'm working on the pain stuff.

    Here is a quote from the Awlgrip instruction sheet:

    "Spray application: Apply a light, smooth, slightly wet tack coat to the surface. Allow tack coat to "flash off" 15 to 45 minutes. Then apply
    the second coat as an almost full wet coat. Allow the second coat to "flash off" 30-45 minutes until only slightly tacky before applying a
    third coat. Coats two and three are not "full, wet" coats. The third coat should be just heavy enough to obtain full hide (opacity) or color
    coverage.

    Brush/Roller application: Apply Awlgrip Topcoat in at least two coats, allowing 16 hours between each coat. Sanding between coats
    with 320-400 grit paper will provide a smoother finish.
    "

    So, it would appear both spraying and rolling take the same amount of time. One is more coats, but goes on faster. One is less coats, but goes on slower. Also, it appears that for "best results" you should sand between your roll and tip coats. Yikes.

    Then again, no excessive masking required to roll and tip.

    No wonder everyone has a different opinion. It looks like roll and tip vs spray take the same amount of time.
     
  8. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    What do you call effects?
     
  9. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    On decks I use anti-slip, I don't worry about sanding finish.
    Of side of boat I apply second coat as soon as first coat is tacky.

    Suggestion, try both in a small scale and see which you like better. Do you have a dingy to paint?
     
  10. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    Location: Florida

    mydauphin Senior Member

    Oh, roll and tip has another big advantage. I do it in marinas, and even with the boat in the water. Try that with spray and you will be arrested.
     
  11. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

  12. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    What about this plan?

    1) Using my air powered long boards and 2 men, fair with epoxy/microballoons until reasonable fairness is achieved. Finish up with a manual longboard session to find lows. Fill in and sand until even. We have done this on the keel areas of the inverted hulls and they are close to regular Awlgrip 545 primer ready.

    2) ROLL AND TIP (or just roll, actually) some high build primer, then sand that down with power long boards and 200+ grit, or whatever is suggested on the paint system instructions.

    3) We now have a perfect surface that needs color, effects and clear coat. Hire the best local autobody guys available to spray these last coats on. Should cost less than half what it would cost to have a marine outfit do it and they are probably more familiar with adding clear coat effects. Plus, all prep work would be done. They could spray it out in a few days. I'd have my 18CFM compressor and they could just bring some HVLP guns as they are comfortable with.

    That might be the best of both worlds.

    I also keep reading on the instructions (such as on Imron's instructions) that people with allergies, asthma or respiratory complaints should not work with the isocyanate paint systems. I have respiratory problems from all the years of living on boats with mold. I also developed allergies to other things (citrus for one odd example) after that mold allergy developed.

    Maybe I'm not a good candidate to work with the paint at all?
     
  13. mydauphin
    Joined: Apr 2007
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    mydauphin Senior Member

    I WOULD TIP ANYWAY OTHERWISE YOU DON"T GET SMOOTH FINISH AND YOUR GOING TO SAND FOR NOTHING.


    3) We now have a perfect surface that needs color, effects and clear coat. Hire the best local autobody guys available to spray these last coats on. Should cost less than half what it would cost to have a marine outfit do it and they are probably more familiar with adding clear coat effects. Plus, all prep work would be done. They could spray it out in a few days. I'd have my 18CFM compressor and they could just bring some HVLP guns as they are comfortable with.

    GOOD AUTO GUYS AREN'T CHEAP EITHER, and THEY DONT KNOW THE PAINTS

    That might be the best of both worlds.

    I also keep reading on the instructions (such as on Imron's instructions) that people with allergies, asthma or respiratory complaints should not work with the isocyanate paint systems. I have respiratory problems from all the years of living on boats with mold. I also developed allergies to other things (citrus for one odd example) after that mold allergy developed.

    Maybe I'm not a good candidate to work with the paint at all?

    HONESTLY, I think it is has killed me already. Everytime, I paint or work with Epoxies I get coughs, and have gotten pretty sick. Other day, I was using some primer in enclosed area and got a really bad headache. Fairing and painting is better left to some one you don't care about.
    [/QUOTE]
     
  14. Silver Raven
    Joined: Oct 2011
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    Location: Far North Queensland, Australia

    Silver Raven Senior Member

    Gooday 'C-B' Don't you have some c/b & rudders to paint. They'd make a great - trial paint job area - that's large enough for 1/ you to see the difference & 2/ for you to get a feel of how easy/difficult - each method is - when it comes down to the real doing it - end of the job. Paint them hanging-up not lying down to get the most critical results.The pointy-end of any job is always a personal choice (just like building a yacht - eh?). I've been 'painting' boats of all kinds for over 40 years, as the business I was in. How I feel or what I think - is of no use to you. You must go with the method that you feel the most comfortable using to get the results that you will be happy with. Remember - the cardinal rule - "the guy who pays - calls all the shots".

    I'm sure in the long run - you'll make the right - if not the best - decission. Ciao, james - semi-retired yacht builder/repaired.
     

  15. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Well, wouldn't you know it, the more I look through everything, the more this seems right.


    If I don't hire out the spray, I will surely roll and tip as a health precaution.

    Imron is now roll and tip too. They have instructions and reducer for it now. I will look into that.

    Remaining difficult question is:

    Can you apply candy/pearl layers in a roll and tip job?
     
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