Ok I don't own it

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by Boston, Sep 15, 2010.

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  1. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    What they need is a complaint dep for the complaint dep. I'm going to write the SA a letter directly and see what shakes loose, his office is seriously wanting in its ability to handle a simple consumer case and something tells me its time to start jumping up and down some and insisting the mater get some attention.
  2. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: OREGON

    rasorinc Senior Member

    Bos, carbon copy one to send to the governor. I've found that sending it to anyone with weight does help and I have been doing it for 45 years. You do not have to acknowlege it on your letter. A CC blind. Stan
  3. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I think it would be more beneficial if the SA saw the Governor has been CC'd. I suggested an approach like this when you first reported the incident. Nothing gets done unless they have to do it. Murderers and rapists have to be pursued, but if you don't make a lot of noise, they'll back burner you until you go away. Now you have them over a barrel, because they dropped the ball. You should also contact one of your local congressmen and have him place a call to the local congressmen in the area the deed took place. If you want action, get one of these clowns, to think they're helping the public with an unjust situation, which they can take credit for solving. It likely the broker that robbed you, has this type of leverage in his pocket, which is why he's still in business and able to pull off this kind of crap. Toss some politicians on his butt and see what scurries out.
  4. Lurvio
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Location: Mid of Finland

    Lurvio Mad scientist

    We had a case with a building permit last fall. The local inspector told me that energy calculations needed for a house permit needed to have blue borders/layout. The fellow (in a firm that specialices in these things) who made the calculations (and pretty much everybody else) told me they are valid and the inspector said they aren't.

    Talking to a couple of local politicians lead me to call a lawyer in a higher governing body and the result was a fast one. About an hour after I had called the lawyer, the inspector (outside his working hours) called for me to bring in the paperwork.

    Just goes to show that there is some good to politicians after all.

  5. bntii
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    bntii Senior Member

    Call the Governor?


    Boston dropped the ball and didn't get the deal done.
    There is a big difference between feeling cheated and being cheated.

    Read again the email he posted when his offer was declined:

    I forwarded your offer to the church a couple of days ago even though we still haven't received the signed contract/check as of today?
    In a previous e mail I said the offer would be tendered upon receipt.
    The church has declined your offer and has accepted another immediate cash offer.
    It's unfortunate this didn't work out since we both spent a lot of time on this matter.
    If anything else surfaces in the future that represents an opportunity like this I'll send the information to you."

    Boston never had a completed contract, or owned the boat.

    Haven't any of you bought boats before?

    The broker will send out a generic contract at price he is authorized to sell boat at.
    You sign it and send in with 'good faith' deposit. WHEN the broker receives the contract it is tendered to seller and IF he accepts the offer the deal is done.
    Up to acceptance he can sell the boat to anyone else who walks in the door, withdraw the boat for sale, burn it to the ground or anything else he cares to do- it's his boat.

    There is no fault to find in the brokers, sellers or ultimate buyers actions.
    The boat was sold to someone else while you were haggling about the price with the broker.
    Learn from YOUR mistake so you don't make it again.
    This is a public forum- leave the rightful new owner of the vessel in peace to enjoy HIS boat.

    Tough luck B- but move on.
  6. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    the problem is that the email they sent back to me was inaccurate and twists the facts. I believe it was specifically written in order to cover there tracks in selling off the boat to someone else rather than the person (me) they had a contract with

    this letter was pretty much an effort at damage control on there part and simply does not represent the reality of what happened which seems actionable to every lawyer I had review the emails.
  7. Lister

    Lister Previous Member

    It took me a week to read the thread.
    What a story, what a great thread.
  8. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    Location: Vancouver

    welder/fitter Senior Member

    I re-read the thread the other day, just to be sure I hadn't missed anything. Consider a comparison to the boat I bought recently in California, from Vancouver, Canada:

    - Broker sends me a purchase agreement, I fill it out, make a counter-offer to the asking price, sign it & fax it back, along with a copy of a deposit cheque for $1,500, all subject to survey.
    - My wife & I went down for survey & to meet with rigger I hired, and collect his report.
    - We return to Canada, make adjusted offer based on survey report, rig survey report & my own inspection.
    - seller counters my latest offer, I turn it down, seller accepts my last offer.
    - Broker sends me final statement with his, not seller's signature. I sign it, fax it back & wire transfer the balance.
    - At this point the deal is done. I hired someone to move the boat to another marina and arranged through a titling office to have the boat licensed in California.

    Because I want to protect myself from being "bitten in the butt" from unknown sources, I have since collected a copy of the seller's/broker's final disbursements & requested a letter from the seller with certain details. However, if at any point I had accepted the sellers price & sent the money - by whatever means - the deal is normally considered a "done deal" at that point. Usually, a reasonable period of time is given between the period at which a deal is struck & the money must be received.

    If "Boston" received a signed counter-offer & signed that document, subject to payment, he owns the boat, even if the document is only signed by the seller's representative, the broker. As for whether payment was received & received on time, or not, I see no mention of time-frame on this thread. If the signed agreement does not specify a specific number of days, or a date, by which time all monies must be received, Contractual/Contract Law for the State or Province comes in to play in determining what is considered "reasonable time for payment". So, the questions that "Boston" could answer are: 1) Was the counter-offer you signed, signed by the seller or broker?
    2) Was there a specific period of time mentioned on same document for monies to be received and, if so, was this condition breached?
    As Lister points out, it is a fascinating thread, of value to anyone who will purchase a boat in the future.
  9. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    exactly what my lawyers said
    all of them
    I consulted numerous lawyers and each said basically the same thing
    either they sold the same boat twice to two different people or they sold my boat without my permission
    either is a breach of contractual law on there part
    the moment I accepted there counter offer the deal was done
    money exchanged or not
    I signed and sent proof of the document having been signed
    as well as proof of a cashiers check being made out to them as earnest money to ensure the sale
    and I have the earliest date of purchase on my documents.

    I signed "there" offer
    and sent a check as well as provided proof of same
    deal done
    according to everyone I have spoken to I own the boat.

    boats mine and I expected delivery without delay.

    then a week later they sold the boat to someone else ?
    should be interesting to see how the court calls it but in the end I want my boat and I want it in the condition I bought it in
    any alterations made since the time of purchase are the sole responsibility of the seller and subject to further litigation. The boat is "one of a kind" and as such is not subject to arbitration, IE not negotiable, I purchased it as is and if its not delivered "as is" then we have another breach of contract on top of the first. Express performance is required in this case according to multiple lawyers. So if any alterations have been made then they were done without my consent or supervision, which means I would likely be owed compensation for any consequences of those alterations including repairs or difficulties in acquiring insurance based on improperly done work, substandard work or work not inspected properly as well as any work not meeting Loyds specifications. I was after all intending to do a complete restoration. If the boat has been spotted on the water already then one might hardly expect a top to bottom restoration was accomplished in such a short period of time. Deal is if some butcher has touched the boat since the time I purchased it then whatever alterations might have been made without my permission are subject to legal action. My lawyer was very clear about this.

    As soon as I can get a properly filed complaint in with the SA office then I'm going to ask the court for an immediate seizure of the vessel until ownership can be established and pending the outcome of any criminal action against the seller.

    deal is I got screwed and lied to and I'm pissed off

    so lawyers, criminal actions and DA's it is
  10. bntii
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    bntii Senior Member

    This is not true- the brokers signature is meaningless and is often not even included on these contracts. He lacks 'power of attorney' and cannot sell the boat to any party.
  11. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    When I received the final statement from the broker, I called a friend in Houston, Texas, who has a law firm there & has been my closest friend since we were 6 years old, because I wanted to ensure that this was legit. Now, I appreciate that laws are not always the same from State to State, but in speaking with one of his lawyers - he was in court when I called - I was told that as long as the broker had a contract to represent the seller in the sale of the boat, the broker's signature was acceptable. Later, in speaking to my buddy, he confirmed this.

    I'm not a lawyer, so I can only go on what I was told. I do presently have the boat licensed in California(DMV) under my name.
  12. welder/fitter
    Joined: Jun 2008
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    welder/fitter Senior Member

    I should add that the seller did sign the offer that I made prior to the survey, but didn't sign the later final statement.
  13. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    I should reiterate that the broker "carried" the counteroffer to me "from the seller" so the offer I accepted was made by the seller and accepted by me with consideration. Which basically means I signed and sent them a check as well as provided proof of having done so.

    Bntii I'm not sure why your thinking that the authorized agent isn't able to legally sell something he's contracted to sell. I've really researched this and your the only person who's telling me I didn't buy a boat.

    do you understand that they, (the church that owned the boat ) made me an offer and I accepted it. That they "authorized" there broker to write it up and send it to me for my approval. I signed and sent a check.
  14. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
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    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Your local City newspaper may have an action plan. Our one does follow-ups on bureaucrats and usually gets prompt action because the newspaper is looking for an opportunity to print a cause celebre article and the bureaucrats are well aware of that.

  15. Jim Irwin
    Joined: May 2011
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    Jim Irwin New Member

    The broker's response to allegations.





    I'm having difficulty finding the sentence that allows for slanderous or libelous statements?

    Those of you that have been a part of this thread are obviously intelligent, articulate contributors. How can any of you reach conclusions about a situation when you're only getting one side of an issue?

    My gratitude is extended to the people who added to the knowledge base of the boat design site and the cool heads that gave Boston good advice. I'm especially grateful to the gentleman that brought this thread to my attention last week.

    Rest assured that after being involved in thousands, not tens or hundreds, of boat transactions during my 46 year career in the boat/yacht industry, I know the business of listing/selling yachts.
    This transaction has been properly documented, properly handled, and will withstand the scrutiny of my peers.

    The "Church" has been unfairly maligned by some statements in this thread, as well as I and my business.

    The marine industry is comprised of thousands of hard working and honest citizens, just like our society.
    Give our industry, and me, the benefit of doubting unproven claims when you see us maligned without all the pertinent facts.

    My name is Jim Irwin. I'm a yacht broker, and proud of it!

    A Past President-N.W. Marine Trade Assn.
    A Past President-Oregon Marine Trade Assn.
    A Past President-Norwest Boating Industries
    A Past President-Portland Metropolitan Business Assn.
    A Founder & Member-Portland Marine Dealer's Assn.
    Member, past Board Member, and Officer-Columbia River Yacht Club
    Member-N.W. Yacht Brokers Assn.
    Member-C.P.Y.B. (Certified Professional Yacht Brokers)
    Member-N.W. Marine Trade Assn.
    Member-N.W. Yacht Broker's Assn.

    P.S. The new owners of the 36' R.D. Helmer, a young hard working couple from Alaska, made an offer, negotiated it to a satisfactory conclusion, and performed per the terms and conditions of their offer/purchase agreement.
    They are not related to, nor knew any of the interested parties to the sale prior to making the offer, and paid $6,500.00 for the yacht. That information is available to the public through brokers on our MLS system.
    Ask yourself why the Church would take less than has been reported in this thread if the facts were as stated?

    It's a pleasure to utilize my right of free speech, that's in part attributable to a Grandfather buried in France during WW1, Uncles and a Father that served in WW2, and other relatives/friends that have served in the military, including me, in the ensuing years.
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