Ok complete change of plan

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Boston, May 4, 2010.

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  1. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    It seems to me you're looking for a troller.

    I'd assume you've looked at Beuhlers Ducks.
    Most can be built planked,are long and skinny,and he's very open to changes.

    Have that work boat look you're seeking.
     
  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    nah
    Buellers stuff never really appealed to me much. Really doesn't compare to say Atkins much, or at least in my mind. Sorta like the difference between a sloppy framer and a skilled carpenter.

    I like stuff that is either got lots of finish detail or is almost work-boat utilitarian but still has the lines of a skilled designer

    like old Ted Brewers grand banks 33
    http://www.tedbrewer.com/power/grandbanks33.htm
    its short, its fat, its not exactly a swan but its got something in the lines that makes it work

    If I remember right Builler even uses telephone poles for masts :-(
    pretty grim stuff there
     
  3. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

  4. Brian@BNE
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    Brian@BNE Senior Member

    left field option

    OK, you want options? and favour long slender? So - build a barge. In steel, insulate carefully with armaflex and fill with as much speccy joinery as you want - weight is unlikely to be an issue.

    These things can be to Cat B in Europe (waves to 4m, Beaufort 8) and have have shallow enough draft to hide up creeks. But can they back out again? :eek:

    ESS indicative pricing seems pretty good for hulls. Walkerboats one shows what can be done with 18m LOA, but paid carpentry is obviously expensive. Probably need a largish bow thruster for Inside Passage in case currents try to get hold of you and mess with your preferred heading.
    http://www.euroshipservices.nl/engl...l/english/standaardpakketten.asp?PakketID=116
    http://www.western-horizon.co.uk/boat_details.php?boat_id=144

    I'm thinking of doing it and envisage including similar destinations (all in good time, France is first), but not quite ready yet. And if you say buying a ready-welded steel hull is too expensive, then I say just do more paid work until you can cover it. Better than building a hull yourself and I reckon it will make no difference at all to your launch date.
     
  5. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

  6. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    OK, stop picking on Buehler.:D

    I'm not really familiar with his designs. But I've read a few of his 'how-to's' on building, and I like the man. He seems to have a "git'erdone and in the water" attitude, that if followed would keep a lot of amateur projects from dying halfway through.

    My older brother once built his own house, and trust me: he is not the carpenter in the family. He stacked his desk with how-to books aimed at amateur home builders. Most of them showed an alarming contempt for professional woodworkers and builders, as though they had no business charging people for something any idiot could do himself.

    But one voice of sanity made a very good point. That author compared home building to knitting a sweater: don't get so wrapped up in the process that you forget your goal is to create something you can use. At some point you finish the sweater, put it on to stay warm, and go on about your business.

    What's wrong with using telephone poles for masts? They're made from trees....
     
  7. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    ya I used to get a lot of calls from DIY homeowners and contractors, invariably they had run into trouble somewhere and just moved on to the next dead end, in the end they had a can of worms.

    sorry but I've seen that rodeo and wont be riding in it

    sometimes I get roped into looking at a job and someone will spill the beans with "we built it all ourselves"

    "yup you sure did" is generally my silent response, followed by "oh darn I forgot I had another appointment"

    if your basic DIY boat is anything like your basic DIY house Im surprised you guys haven't lynched me for even suggesting it

    sorry if I stepped on toes but there is an intrinsic beauty to a boat that is not just in the eye of the beholder
    it takes skill do design it and it takes skill to pull it off correctly although Marks avatar is oh so true
    you can hide a lot of flaws at 60mph

    its in the lines, hidden in the function without sacrificing form. Some designers remind me of artists others of
    well
    of something less

    to each his own
    just my two cents

    cheers
    B
     
  8. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I dunno, Boston; maybe you should take another look at Buehler's Ducks. Some of them look to me like they're the sort of thing you seem to be looking for...like the Seahorse 462 Sedan shown on this page if you scroll down a bit.

    http://dieselducks.com/index.html

    I'm no expert on saltwater cruising; the smallest thing I ever went to sea on was about 400' long. But the Sedan looks practical to me. It has a motor; it has sails; it has lots of elbow room that could be rearranged to suit yourself; it could probably survive some pretty rough water.
     
  9. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Ok I do kinda like this one
    http://dieselducks.com/ICE.html
    but its miles out of my reality range to get into a 50,000 hour build in steal

    nice boat though
    Its nice to see that old George does have one that contains some element of style

    I take it all back now
    george if your listening I owe you an apology
    the ICE is a nice looking boat
    although all that stuff aloft looks kinda like a Charlotte's web to me

    cheers
    B
     
  10. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    I really really really really don't think its a 50k hour build in "steal" for a non ice berg resistant vessel.


    And....like I said before they can be done in wood,and if not he'd draw it up 4U.

    In my old office I could look out over a welding yard and saw 3 guys weld up a similar 45' hull and house in under 2 weeks.
    With computer cut steel,it all lays together like a puzzle-then tack.

    Why complain about all that stuff aloft??
    -it's sailing gear..which you want.
    -and stabilizers
     
  11. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    article says 40,000 hours and counting with about 6 months left to go

    insane but whatever

    I like it but not enough to build one

    seems like a gas hog to me

    if I was going that rout I'd go with one of Tads passage makers
    at least those are not so thirsty at the pumps

    B
     
  12. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Do you actually read what well meaning people waste their time posting for you before summarily brushing off their efforts?

    For the 3rd GD time-build it in wood....NOT to ABC Yacht standards for living the winter in Ant-fu$#ing-arctica.

    If you think it'll take 40k hours,well then good for you.

    Had you bothered to look up the fuel charts?

    Here's some pretty pictures for you,so maybe you can comprehend.

    http://dieselducks.com/Wood-constructionphotos.html




    DONE with you and this thread
     
  13. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    yes I did
    and the length displacement ratio is not favorable to say Tads designs
    nor is the millage

    just because I dont take your advice does not mean its not considered or appreciated
     
  14. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    ok
    while we are on the subject of taking advice

    Im going to make a complete turn around

    Guillermo has convinced me of the benefit of a yawl rig in a single handed sailor
    Rasorninc has convinced me that a sail rig can be made cheaply and still with quality in mind
    Tad has made it clear that he believes sail is a worthy option in this area although the up front cost may be higher
    Par has convinced me that a traditional build is cheaper in most regards than the modern counterparts
    Mark has me convinced that the systems need be kept as simple as possible with a common fuel being used in both the engine, generator and the heating systems
    Mass has convinced me that shallow draft is a huge plus
    several folks have suggested I simply dont need a boat any bigger than 30~40' to be comfortable

    Hoyt
    Al White
    Apex
    Fannie
    Angelique
    Frosty
    have all contributed there two cents and without there input and the input of many others I would not be, eventually able to make my best decision


    the following boat contains each of the specific attributes listed above


    so Im going to take a whole new tact
    frankly I just dont find much appeal in the blue water motor cruisers being suggested
    so Im going to jump ship

    an under 40' auxiliary sail

    http://dngoodchild.com/divide_for_sail_boats.htm

    #5452--HOW TO BUILD THE 36-FOOTER SEA DAWN

    in case that link just takes you to a gigantic page of designs
    hit cruising auxiliaries 24' and up
    then scroll down to how to build the 36' Sea Dawn by S.S.Crocker Jr.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    semi shoal draft centerboard ketch rig

    told you all bets were off and I was starting from scratch

    I dont like the open cockpit for the pacific northwest but I could build a folding or removable cockpit cover that still allows access to the sails and yet does not ruin the lines
    or even just a small protected helm station of some kind

    just a consideration
    oh and the aux is a ~30 hp fuel sipping midget thats just enough to get me out of trouble if I need it

    I would want more light in the cabin and a topper for the cockpit for places where it rains say 200+ inches in a year

    love the galley
    am cool with the head
    would take the advice of the writer and make the salon berths a bit longer and add stowage forward as well as an entertainment center
    want a washer and dryer, wind generator, wood stove if there isn't already one (didnt see it on the prints), a steel centerboard case, satellite link which is sorta a must have and maybe top masts if its safe what with the shoal draft in order to loose the spreader on the mizzen
    but I have no idea where to put the dome and still make it look like an old time sailor

    B
     

  15. hoytedow
    Joined: Sep 2009
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    Location: North of Cuba

    hoytedow Wood Butcher

    I like it. It could have a hard-top convertible like a Corvette.
     
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