Ok complete change of plan

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Boston, May 4, 2010.

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  1. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    rasorinc Senior Member

  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Ya I'm kinda waiting to hear back from Tad on his design. Price and layout, I like the skill level yet simple layout at least from the outside. I could do some really nice joinery on that deck house and make it shine like the northern star
    might be a good name for her eh

    His hull has beautiful lines and I like what looks like an open chain locker forward
    the aft salon seating is nice and I could still get in some nice fishing off her
    that and if its nice enough I could maybe take out the occasional couple for a few extra bucks here and there

    never hurts to be thinking about my wallet although I would love to land a job in a wooden boat yard doing finish work if I could

    dream on eh

    The Atkins is cheap and pleasantly primitive but Tads just looks better, has that jump in and lets go look to it

    not so sure about its level of comfort though as apposed to the chine form which resists roll a bit better. That and the mast also adds to dampening the motion some

    I wonder if that thing will actually sail or if that stubby mast is mainly for stability

    oh and earlier I mentioned maybe extending the cabin roof back to the line of the trunk and offsetting that with a bit of weight in the shoe but now Im thinking it might be better to add a foot or so of length to offset the weight and add a bit to the shoe as well
    not sure how to properly modify it to get the balance back from the additional weight of the roof
    any ideas

    oh that is funny
    I just went to the atkins boats group and first thing they say is no changing the boats any
    yikes no customizing eh
    you were right
    I can just envision the lynch mob now
  3. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Its a huge project either way you do it...theres another boat plan co thats been around for a long time,they also have kind of a West Coast styled troller boat I think you may like.

    Can't remember the name right now...
  4. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    not a problem
    myself and one other carp and a laborer built this thing in about a year
    no crane


    Im ok with a good solid task ahead
  5. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

  6. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    they do have some nice stuff but Im still waiting to hear from Tad. My bet is he is pleasantly busy building something.

    I read that atkins site that Easy suggested and they are kinda nuts about not customizing them

    crazy if you ask me I just want to extend the cabin roof and swap the galley area for the seating area
    but they have like a big red neon sign saying "free lynching"
  7. WestVanHan
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    Devlin...just some more ideas for boats.

    It's not like you're making huge changes that would affect balance etc
    Well its your boat u can do whatever you like with it,if they don't like it well they can get stuffed...is my attitude and yours too I'm sure.

    I'd not support a co. that won't try to help me...I'd stick with a local guy (for me) Tad.
  8. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Im inclined to feel the same way but he might not sell prints, so who knows

    Tads boat screams rent me, fishing, sightseeing, whatever.
    like I said earlier I kinda really like that nice deck house as well

    the Atkins boat has that almost work boat look to it
    simplistic and able to take a beating but not the kind of thing that a couple high rollers might want to spend a day out sightseeing on

    charters isn't a primary goal but its in the back of my mind and since I do high end carpentry anyway I might as well pick a design were I can best express some skills

    anyway rumor is I just got this new job so I'll just hang and see what happens next

  9. Easy Rider
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    Easy Rider Senior Member

    Your'e right. TAD's design does have a lot more class but what are ya go'in to do w class up here. I think I'll go have a look at Yellow Cedar. I had a 14' Yellow cedar Christmas tree last year. Big problem getting it through the door .. flexability saved the day.

    Easy Rider
  10. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Just looking at Tad's design I don't think it would take much to heighten the mast enough to strap on a low aspect headsail, or to put a free footed sail across the coachroof. Most of these steadying sails aren't much more than 150 sq ft. And now that I think about it a free footed main would probably work pretty well, I would guess it would add between 1.5 and 3 kn on a reach, less beating. A boom would probably be more efficient, but if you can eliminate a big piece of sailing gear in this application it is probably worth trying to do so.

    As for the redesign on the windows, you might want to take a look at what Windhorse has done. Dashew used 19mm, about 3/4 thick glass not so much for protection from waves, but also in the event of a rollover. The advantage of this though is that unlike ABS or Lloyds they are not expected to use storm shutters in the case of severe weather. http://dashewoffshore.com/glazing_decision.asp
  11. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    the glass issue is not a problem
    I worked at as a consultant at a glass plant a while back and know way more than I want to about glass
    1/4 temp triple laminated with 3m blast resistant film should do the trick as its essentially bullet proof
    ends up being that 3/4 you were referring to and because of the thermal breaks doesn't sweat nearly as bad (depends on the temp differential) as just straight annealed glass

    I would need to run the numbers on the actual window sizes but I dont really even know if Tads design is for sale in prints only. So lets not jump the gun.

    I sent him a PM and we shall see whats up soon enough, the Atkins design is also completely serviceable and still well within the running.

    funny thing is I was getting tired of beating my head against the drawing board trying to learn all the options and how they effect performance when considered with all the other options. Was starting to drive me nuts actually.

    either design would work, Atkins has that "lumberjack owns this look, lets go fishing" and Tads has that "rent me Im really a comfortable way to go see a whale look". The former being the kind o folks I could probably down a few pints with and didn't care if they got back late and the later being the husband will puke over the side types, who knows.

    I just want to figure out what Im building and get to work on it. More I think about it the more I realize I would not have come up with a superior design

    that atkins is what #800 and something, and designed after what 50 years of experience, and Tad, guys been building and designing solid for 25 years or so writes articles for WB and explains **** to other NA's.

    I thought I was having a good time designing but after a while I was just going in circles. If I do go with Tads Then he can figure out the mast, I've kinda come to a conclusion about the whole design my own plan

    windows are not an issue but thanks I didn't know Dashew used 3/4

    Im on hold till I have more info
  12. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I do´nt see why TAD, or any other NA would´nt sell a set of plans to you. Except others, like a yard, have some rights on it.

    When it comes to a cost comparison, bear in mind that the Atkins design is for conventional building methods, which can be translated in: labour intense and expensive.
    Where the modern methods provide several advantages costwise and labourwise.

    Therefore I do´nt see a noticeable difference in the cost of the Great Bear and TAD´s PM 39. (assuming the quality of build and fitout being the same standard)

    The steadying sail on the Atkin GB is what it is named after. Not a propulsion. Although I would expect some three knots speed under sail alone.

    Windows are unfortunately almost always undersized, in terms of ruggedness. Even the 19mm Dashew installed is not enough imho! That would be good when it were laminated, but he went for a single sheet hardened glass.

  13. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    ok how close would you guestimate them to be
    say within 10 or 15% overall ?

    Im not sure how a cold molded hull can end up comparing to a traditional plank in initial cost
    overall cost sure the cold molded hull should need less maintenance but the initial cost I would thing is both higher is labor and materials
    doesn't really mater though cause I'd double diagonal that Atkins design anyway

    I have not ever actually ever budgeted out an actual build so anything I come up with is based on my experience in other trades

    I looked at Devlin and although they have some nice stuff I'm pretty partial to either Tads design or the Atkins
    the atkins needs a few minor alterations but Tads I could build exactly as is, I think I need to see an interior plan as I have no plans of sleeping forward

    so far I'm thinking the Atkins needs to be slightly stretched say 10%, and put that extra length into the wheel house, swap the galley area for the seating area forward and add a washer dryer, extend the cabin roof aft over the open area
    the only thing anyone would notice from the outside is the extended cabin roof
  14. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    By the way the Atkin is not easy to built. It looks that way because of the chine, it is a false impression. The topside planking is very difficult, the chine log with rolling bevel is difficult, the bottom is very twisted requiring a lot of spilling. I will prefer a round chine, far more easy to built. Sound strange but it is the reality.
    (I am taulking classic wood construction or double planking)
    For other type of construction, can be the strip plank, easier but longuer time and messy, requiring countless hour of sanding, mostly if using a sheathering.
    I will have a design from an alive and well designer, so he can guide you in case of problem.
    I still recommending our friend Tad.
    But that is my two cents

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Yes, about 15% I would guess.

    These "minor alterations" as you call them, could keep a NA busy for a week or longer! So, although it seems to be just a bit of effort to "twist" something here and something there, more often than not, this will end up as a complete new design. Then, it is more than a week for the NA, and worse, it is more effort to "stay" within a given design appearence, parameter, etc. than going from a blank sheet.

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