Ok complete change of plan

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Boston, May 4, 2010.

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  1. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    Well those of you who know me know I've been hashing out a design for the inside passage. Well I stumbled across this Atkins design that just seemed so close to what I want that it demands a serious look into the practicality of spending a small fortune on having my own design checked and corrected by a NA, rather than just buy a set of plans that came close that I might make a few minor alterations to and end up in roughly the same place.

    Ive come to realize that the comuter style is just not all that suited to anything resembling open water work and this Atkins seems a bit more seaworthy although those big windows will need to be altered a bit, that and I want to be able to drop the mast without to much trouble, and a bit more room in the sleeping arraignments a bimini over the open cockpit and maybe seating and entertainment area where the two birth are forward.

    I suppose I could still make it my own and save a lot of time in the process. Besides Par made it clear that it would cost me more to have a set of plans checked for errors and altered accordingly than it would to just let a designer have at it. Thing is I have really enjoyed learning a few aspects of design ( speaking of which I tried to convince our old friend to return but so far no go )

    the Atkins Great Bear

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    LOA: 36' 8½" LWL: 34' W: 10' 5" D: 2' 10" Disp: 15,000 lb. SA: 315 sq. ft. HP: 70 Speed: 9+ kts

    seems like a few relatively minor alterations later and it would get me on the water and tooling around in Elysium

    the boat I was designing was turning into something unattainable anyway so maybe a rethink is in order

    oh and it has room to fit my tools and still remain floating
     
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  2. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    ok that was interesting
    I just looked up the 70 hp engine this thing will need and the thing weighs all of 70 lbs less then the 175 hp engine I already have and is so close in size its not worth mentioning the numbers
    runs at higher RPM and costs a fortune

    kinda gets me thinkin why
     
  3. Brian@BNE
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    Brian@BNE Senior Member

    Boston,
    just make the mast out of Douglas fir (not your favorite timber if I recall), carry a chain saw and you can drop it real fast with a big grin on your face at the same time.:D :D

    given your into 'rethink' (and I know that feeling), have you considered the Glen-L 'Klondike'?
    http://www.glen-l.com/designs/cruiser/klondike.html

    It mightn't have the styling you hanker for, but you could configure the interior to be more pleasing long term than the Atkins, which will give you 'cabin fever' after a while - you wont want to spend long periods on it. I reckon some flair could turn out an impressive Klondike, well within your capabilities I'd think.
     
  4. troy2000
    Joined: Nov 2009
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    This post confused me for a few minutes. I used to own Practical Small Boat Designs by John Atkin, and it has a flatbottomed sloop in it named Great Bear. But apparently someone got their boat names mixed up (understandable, as many designs as William and John Atkin turned out). According to what I've just read, that boat was really Little Bear, designed and built for the same owner as Great Bear.

    They both look like practical boats to me; Great Bear much more so for your purposes than Little Bear. But of course I'm no expert on rough-water boats; I'll leave the critique of Great Bear up to the boys from Alaska and the Pacific Northwest.
     
  5. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    well one of the changes might be to extend the wheelhouse back all the way aft and compensate for the extra weight with a bit of a heavier Shoe. Another less burdensome change might be to simply have a bimini do the same thing.

    at 38 feet I should be able to jam all the amenities into it and not have that all important to avoid cabin fever you mention

    I also thought of moving the galley forward adding a washer and dryer and having some nice seating in the wheelhouse, a bimini over the center cockpit to allow access to some easy fishing and still give me more space on a rainy day, that and create one large double birth in the trunk rather than the two small ones shown. Coffee pot is about all I need in the wheelhouse.

    Im thinking that a few minor alterations and this thing might just be it. That and the prints are all of $200. Which is about a five second conversation with an NA these days.

    oh
    the solution to cabin fever is to stop into the local bar and buy some local beauty a drink or ten

    cheers
    B

    oh
    I dont think either are genuinely rough water boats but for the passage they should do ok but you are right, I could really use the input of those who live and sail there before I make any final decisions

    would be nice to start building this summer, at least parts. Get the frames built and maybe build the keel and transom, stuff like that
     
  6. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Boston, it is a nice boat, but honnestly talk to Tad.
    He has design more suited for your need.
    Daniel
     
  7. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    actually I've always liked his Yellow Cedar design but not sure if its heavy enough for the passage

    other than that its beautiful and right up my alley

    I do particularly like that it eats less fuel
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Welcome back in real life mate!

    There is a smaller Gartside design with a handsome interior layout, you may find worth a look (just to get more impressions how things can work).

    I would not recommend to move the bed forward! That is the space for a loo / bathroom. The closer your head towards the center of movement, the better you sleep!

    Then there was the hint recommending the 49ft Glen L, thats not a bad idea either, and fast and simply to build (although ply).

    Regards
    Richard
     
  9. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    The windows do not have to be smaller , just built a bit different.

    On many older boats the window was loose in a slide , and raised or lowered with a leather strap like a belt , to what ever opening you desire.

    A second channel holds the screening , and its raised as needed.

    A lexan storm cover could easily be in a third channel.

    FF
     
  10. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    well the Atkins design kinda has a lot of nice features
    its cheap to build and it wouldn't require a lot of alterations to make my own
    Tads hull looks better though and I can handle whatever skill level maybe involved
    also being cold molded it will be more comfortable and less humid inside
    might reek of epoxy for a while though
    Atkins deck house roof needs extend back a bit and a few layout changes but its even got that sail that Masali has been bugging me to stick on that thing.

    One thing I really like about Tads Yellow cedar is its nice fine hull and classic wheel house, Ill have to pester him for a floor plan and see what it looks like.
    Something tells me Tad spent some weight on a nice interior finish while Atkins has a heavier hull, mast and engine, they both have the exact same displacement, Tad has half the engine but at twice the RPM, something tells me Tad gets way better millage but anytime your spinning at twice the speed your eating engine.

    now that my brain is opened up again to just going with an established design I can more easily make a few basic comparisons, Sorry guys if I wasted anyone's time but I gotta go through my own learning process.

    Hey Fred
    hows things
    the windows are something I can deal with as I've been building windows and doors for quite some time. Wood work, joinery, that sort of thing. Ridiculous as it sounds I kinda prefer to be challenged by whatever I build so difficulty factor is something I would actually be looking forward to. Fixing the windows to be strong enough is no problem, just looks like it needs to be done though. I have a window in a Victorian I'm rebuilding now, its oval and operable, kinda a neat trick if you ask me, looking forward to getting started on it.

    [​IMG]

    stick a actual mast on that thing and its what the Atkins would end up looking like once I was done with it anyway

    something kinda nagging at me though is that being shallower draft, round bottom and no mast I think it might rock and roll a bit more
     
  11. Stumble
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Stumble Senior Member

    Boston,

    Just as an aside I think you might want to look at a tabernackle system for the steadying mast. It would allow you to get under most bridges, they are well proven, and I wouldn't even think of going to sea without a steadying sail on either of these boats (any boat really, but thats just me).

    Otherwise I think you have two winners, doesn't look to me like there is a dog in the hunt at this point.
     
  12. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    thanks
    I was up late last night reading up on what Atkins meant about the mast and such. I knew they improve roll moment but not by how much

    the boats are smaller cheaper and almost certainly better designed than anything I could do in just a few years of looking into it

    anyway Im itching to get started and my roomy and I are cleaning out the back yard now

    so I have to get

    cheers
    B
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

  14. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    looks like more money than I have to play with, which isnt much these days.

    the two Im thinking of look downright primitive in comparison
    which Im ok with

    Hey Tad
    you on these days
    can you send me a plan view of the yellow cedar
     

  15. Easy Rider
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Easy Rider Senior Member

    Boston,
    I just commented on that boat a coupl of days ago on the Yahoo Groups Atkin site. I like it a lot. It's the same disp as my 30' Willard. I'm positive you don't need 70hp. A 4JH Yanmar or even better a 54hp Isuzu would be plenty of power. My Willard w 16K disp, same beam and 37hp has plenty of power. The Bear w it's much flatter run aft can use the extra power to exceed hull speed rather like the Handy Billy but if your'e after real economy disp power will deliver. 4hp per ton seems about right. Observe other full disp boats. The Nordhav'n 46 comes to mind w 101hp. But if you run the Bear at/or near HS or above visibility may be a problem. I'd raise the wheelhouse about a foot if it were mine ..and extend same about 2'. If your'e going to do any fishing the aft cabin may not be a good thing. If you go on the Atkins Yahoo Group site don't talk about changes to the sacred Atkin design .. The'll tar and feather you right out of town. Keep the change talk here. The only thing (in my opinion) that could be a problem in these SE Alaskan waters is the vulnerable fwd windows. Again I'd raise the pilothouse and put things on the foredeck to slow the water down. But Atkins was a master .. if you don't put too much weight fwd like anchors, chain, winches or other stuff the Bear will probably rise to a sea like the lady she probably is and never get her nose in too far ??? One thing about the Atkins boats ..even if you don't build them you get the thrill of contemplation. I look at my Atkins catalog like it was a magazine .. over and over again.

    Easy Rider
     
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