offshore micro mumtihull

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by rapscallion, Jul 31, 2012.

  1. rapscallion
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    rapscallion Senior Member

    Ok. Here is yet another offshore micro multihull thread. My question is, how long does a multi have to be in order for it to be off shore capable? I know a tiki 21 competed in the jester challenge, and the val class has a pretty good track record for ocean crossings. What would a decent wood/epoxy ocean racing multi look like? And before the folks say, " a wood boat wouldn't be competitive" I want to remind you that "Ollie," Jan Gougeon's plywood trimaran still holds the record for the solo Mac race... And it has stood for at least 2 decades now. Adagio, Meade Gougeon's wood epoxy trimaran has a PHRF rating of -63, and a google search for a rating for a seacart 30 gave me a PHRF rating of -60. So it would seem a clever design could be competitve in wood/carbon/epoxy.

    So, what would a good offshore design look like? I was thinking transpac and transatlantic races.
     
  2. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    ThomD Senior Member

    What does capable mean? Safe, Competitive, etc...

    Val was glass, though there have been several that weren't. The Tiki I heard about was a 26, and it virtually finished in a different year. If Rory took his 21 out one year, that too is glass. Wood is better than glass, but not better than no-limits construction is carbon and pixie dust.


    Again a bit general, the wood part is not a problem, wood can be a part of a lot of different programs, and wooden boats continue to do well. Wood is in many ways a regional material, so we see say the French, show little interest for the most part, though there are certainly examples of their interest in wood. Wood can be really cheap in the right place, but can also be expensive. I think a boat with wood hulls and carbon beams could be competitive.


    The Gougeon boats actually have a pretty dogged experience in the open ocean. Their 32 won after serial capsize, one got on the wrong side of a rule change, another broke up. I have huge respect for what they have done with their designs, but they are not ocean proven. I really regret that the 60 proposal they did for Phil Steggal never got built because it was a big boat designed for the OSTAR, but with their high efficiency, low power approach. In the right conditions it would have been interesting in it's day. But what constitutes a winning boat is entirely determined by the type of race.

    So what is the question, as micro as possible, competitive, and wood? I don't know of a class were that would work. Back when the big boats took 3 weeks, it was possible for the right skipper and small boat, or oddball boat to skate through, but at a week, I just don't know that it could work. Now if we had a small multihull class all it's own, a wooden boat could be competitive in that. I think it was more interesting when a variety of boats could win, but that kind of thing always gets sucked out of sports when the money comes in. And we get other things to wonder at instead.
     
  3. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Farrier F27's have crossed the Atlantic so a small boat will do the job but are you racing or cruising? I think a good guide is to look at what equipment is required then see whether the boat will be competitive when loaded this will determine the payload you require and the minimum size of the boat if your racing some minimum LOA's are required for some races also some carry requirements such as x amount of fuel and water for the passage. The Mini Transats get by with about 300kg of payload including the skipper so it's doable (and with a quite slow boat, get used to freeze dried meals though).

    Wood epoxy as a construction method is competitive I'd look on a multihull to use carbon on the areas where its properties give maximum benefits appendages such as daggerboards/rudder and mast these are areas where you can make real weight savings also the beams with the use of carbon without blowing the budget. Synthetic rigging also helps keep weight under control.
     
  4. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The abilities of these craft aren't so much the vessel itself, as the intestinal fortitude of the skipper, which says absolutely nothing about the qualities of the design attributes.
     
  5. luckystrike
    Joined: Feb 2010
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    luckystrike Power Kraut

    I would say 26' to 30' is the minimum for carrying enough supplies on a transat-race and to offer enough speed and stability at the same time.

    Seaworthyness is a skippers factor on small multihulls but 26 foot multis were succesfull raced across the atlantic.

    Kurt Hughes is a good Designer for fast Wood Epoxy Multihulls. Here is a link to his 26 footer, but consider the Tomcat 30 V5 (stock plans -> Tomcat) as to be the faster boat. Unfortunally there are just poor pictures and no drawings of this design (the look and concept is quite the same as the 26').

    http://www.multihulldesigns.com/designs_stock/26tri.html

    26triPSP3.gif

    I think the bigger problem in such races is to find other competitors. I don't know transpac, but the atlantik is the playground for the big french multis and these guys dont play with "toyboats" (exept jester challenge). The Round Britain and Ireland Race, interesting and suitalbe for amateur racers, has a size limit of 30' minimum.

    Are they other interesting races?????

    Best Regards, Michel
     
  6. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Once the professionals get involved backed with sponsorship the boats will always get larger and more expensive. I really liked the Corinthian spirit shown in the early OSTARs but they were different and more tolerant times when an offshore ocean racing "industry" didn't exist. Blondie Hasler managed to get the original OSTAR off the ground by sheer bloody minded determination and hounding everyone in the establishment until they eventually capitulated. Chichester and a few other sailors came to the event, raced and made it a success. Hasler's own boat "Jester" was a modified 25' folkboat and Cardinal Vertue David Lewis's boat was also only about 26' if I recall correctly. They were all really beaten up by the time they arrived off the Ambrose Light Ship in New York and most of them had lost quite a lot of weight. Labour saving devices such as self steering (then achieved with a wind vane) were in their infancy as were easy sail handling equipment for singlehanded racers.
     
  7. luckystrike
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    luckystrike Power Kraut

    Yes Corley, I agree. As soon as professionals are on the starting line the bill gets higher to be competitive.

    But its a good feeling to have a fast wooden cruiser racer as there will be some conpetition in your local area. There are always some Farriers waiting to be beaten.

    If you have to work for your money instead to sail for it, your trans-whatever-race will be a one in a livetime adventure that needs a lot of preparation. You have to earn enough money to bridge the time of racing (two or three mounths), making sure you have the time to do it, be sure your wife will not be pregnant and so on an on. This is a preparation of more than a year, so you will find and choose a race that is interesting and not a pro-event.

    Iam building and planning for the Round Britain and Ireland Race in 2014 and decided for a racer cruiser concept, to have a really fast boat for local shore- and offshore racing. (if a 500 nm race is already offshore). On the other hand there is the option for simple basic cruising as well.

    I have sailed on some pure racing machines (monohulls). These boats are simply to expensive and have nearly no ability for every day use.

    I don't know what races you have in mind as soon as your Hughes 40 is ready to race, but Iam sure you will have a lot of fun with it. Get your project going, I love your thread.

    Best Regards, Michel
     

  8. Corley
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Corley epoxy coated

    Agreed Luckystrike, However there is nothing stopping some individuals setting up a purely amateur race like a transat. Setup a website and organise the event as a non for profit event. I suppose the modern version is something like the ARC rally a bit more cruise oriented though.

    Good luck with your build and post lots of pics of your progress!

    I have a few ocean races in mind and the boat will be tailored to fit Cat 1 regs and shorthanded and singlehanded sailing. I'd rather not post up my intentions at this stage as I've no interest in reading any tedious "you will die" posts.
     
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