Offer: true go anywhere Trawler to build "side by side"

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by apex1, Aug 4, 2009.

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  1. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Richard

    Not sure which Class you're going to go for, but there is a new "Winterisation of Ships" coming out from LR. Your category would be "moderate" defined as: seasonal duration in cold temperatures. The rules give guidance for operating in cold temperatures and hence definition of "temp" for the area of operation and thus, the appropriate grade of steel.
     
  2. M-Sasha

    M-Sasha Guest

     
  3. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    We have the profile, we have the material of construction, we have the main specs, we have the targueted price and the targueted time of construction.

    And we have in my opinion a darn good thread.

    The profile is for me splendid, I love it, rugged but civilized.
    It seams in this design the convergent point it the pilothouse, it show, with that type of pilothouse and mass distribution, a serius all weather type of vessel. The offshore tug styling is superbly done, going from commercial inspiration for yacht is not an easy task. Very few succeded.
    I like this profile because it is "complete" and "fluid" it do not have discrepencies. We see often an exercise of style for the bow, and a stern designed by somebody else. I will not give exemples because it will take to much space:D
    The car designer Ghia used to say: anybody can design a great front, (Beside Edsel Ford of course) very few knows how to design the back
    Sasha, you know better than all of us what Richard is capable of.
    Are you going back working with him if the project start? Just curius, I hope you don't mind if I ask.
    Daniel
     
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  4. TeddyDiver
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    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    I have to disagree with you.. Thou ally boat is safe and soundly built there's allways a risk if the next boat on the pier has ****** up wiring.. not a big risk but anyways...
    Oops.. sorry Richard, no more ally ;)
     
  5. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Sasha you are a chatterbox! Why did´nt you post my adress too? And I own only one yard, to make that clear. Some others just work for me.


    Yes we had Daniel, but I guess we need to give her some more beam. The hull was not designed to have the superstructure shown here, it had a lower profile. Although I do´nt like to go wider (cost, roll acceleration etc) I fear we must.
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    John, I mentioned that in the opening post
    in this case GL.
    My German guys say "Dillinger Hütte" E 36 GL (EH 36 is LR spec) for plating, and D 36 for HP frames. this one:
    [​IMG]
    both TM

    And we have to redo the complete hull for Holland profile...................................bingo!
    When sacrificing the bulb we can as well give her ARC1 (GL), because framing has to be the same for E (icegoing) and the "icestringer" is the same. I did know that. Just the reinforced stem is extra, but that was what I wanted anyhow. So, class will probably be +100 A5, ARC1 GL
    Not much left from "Trawler", but that was a misleading label anyway.
    Ok, then lets make a Icebreaker (I feel like coming home).


    the steel:
     

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  7. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Richard, I saw that in the post, i just wasn't sure with Class, but you're a true patriot, GL :)

    It may well be worth approaching those guys with the vac-pak stuff to see whether they have obtained or will obtain Class certs. If not, it may pay you to do this yourself, then you own the cert. Could become a little money earner in the long run!
     
  8. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    This is a very early projection. To be afraid is not the point, the point is to share between us our values and knoweldge or experience to help Richard building the perfect boat. Do you know many professional who are willing to expose their ideas, goal and project on a web paltform to be critisized? It take a lot of balls I tell you. We have to respect that with constructive comments. I do not know if you can plate her chined or bilge rounded in 8 weeks, months or years, again it is not the point.
    Yachting is of course about money, but customer respect what the owner of the shipyard will built for himself and stand for his ideas, more that a glossy brochure showing a bikini girl in the bathtub, or with a apron pretending she is in the kitchen:D
    By the way, if you have a problem with some members, please keep it private. Inuendoes are ennoying.
    And yes I admire very much Robert Clark. He was a gentlemen.
    Now my favorit part: the yacht.
    My turn to project and give an opinion: beam is a bad thing. It is always possible to avoid to much beam. Beam raise the displacement for a given draft, good draft is one of the most important factor in offshore cruising, beam raise the scantling of the deck, as it raise the weight of the decks, beam need more power to pass thru a very bad sea. But of course lack of beam can generate high period of roll, very unconfortable. A great beam stress the hull to much, and can generate a lack of period of roll, as unconfortable as to much.
    This is not for me to say, but I will ask the NA to give me different scenarios with the existing beam. the superstructures are not that high, you can add a little more draft if necessary.
    I think at that point I will start a weight estimate to see where you stand.
    I find always usefull to do a weight estimate at the beginning, even if its a sketches as a departure of the project. Going with average scantling weight, known machinery and tankage weight and joinery evaluation weight, it is not to much trouble.
    This is as I said my very personal opinion, and yes I am biaised;) I like less beam and the 4.55 of the project as now, is very good. Even 5 can be acceptable.
    But as go the story, this is my opinion and ................you know:rolleyes:
    Daniel
     
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  9. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Daneil

    Well put. I raised the L/B issue; while this may appear to be the norm, a higher L/B ratio will greatly improve powering and seakeeping. The slight negative affects can be offset by proper design, ie bilge keels, and a sensible VCG, if approached properly from the outset of the prelim phase.

    As for "..I find always usefull to do a weight estimate at the beginning.."..is there any other way??...spoken like a true professional.

    We don't do any design work without estimating the first weight. It dictates so much of the design....amateurs do this last, as they like to focus upon the hull form calculations from endless softwares, why, because this is the only measurable to give some "credence" to their 'design'.

    Design is a multidisciplinary affair, but the most important is weight and should be top of the list for any design spiral.
     
  10. apex1

    apex1 Guest

     
  11. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    I would like to give my own feeling about the "resale value"
    I don't think it realy exist on a yacht. When you built on that range of price and up it is very often a one person dream. This dream is often shattered because for some strange reason, the owner feel the need to justifie his or her expensive buy. The justification is very often the resale value. It happened more than once in my case, even with samller amount sometime.
    A yacht is sometime designed for charter purpose, or both personal and charter, and has to own its keep, and perhaps the resale value can be slightly higher than a typical personal yacht. These yacht are more and more over stuffed of unnecessary "decor" to please their corporate clients, and when they hit the market for sale, the price go down anyway.
    Buying a yacht should be a complete selfish journey, and more the yacht is "athipic" designed with a great sense of personal achievement, more it will appeal the next client. I saw some great yacht in the same family for 40 or more years, I don't think one second they told the builder: the resale value will be good? No they said: I WANT a yacht like this and that. Period.
    Look at glossy magazine, page after page of countless yacht for sale, some with a splendid "resale value" been on these pages for years. When they sell a boat, the price is never disclosed, and that its not because is high.
    What we sell as a builder or designer is not for everybody, face it. It is always a project with a lot of money and risks involve. It keep a fantastic and inventive people of a sector of the industry working, and that because we have great patrons. The brokerage company make money by the numbers of yacht for sale, not by the "resale value" of each one. And every years you have more yacht for sale, than peopke who buy them.
    Off course I was talking yacht, not commercial vessels.
    As always it is my two cents
    Daniel
     
  12. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    dskira

    You're quiet right. These boats are dreams, and as such one dream for one person. For another 'wealthy' dreamer, it is not his dream, why spent lots of money on something that is not exact, when I have plenty of money to make my own personal dream??

    Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a good point was the "Aussie Rules", for Greg Norman. Bought for $50m, sold 9 months later for $30m

    If you're worried about resale, you haven't got the money to build the dream start with..!!
     
  13. dskira

    dskira Previous Member

    Ad Hoc,
    Thank you for understanding and backing the concept of the weight estimate at the beginning of anny project. It is so overlook it is umbelivable. And from a professional like you, it is an honor.
    I read a lot of your posts thru the differents threads, very insightful, to the point and very informative.

    You are absolutly right. I do not know if Norman thought it was easy to make a buck with megayacht, but anyway whatever the reason it didn't work so well. And it's normal. It is difficult and must be kept simple: built your dream for yourself, period. What will happen after, who knows!
    Of course your last comment resume perfectly the situation!
    Daniel
     
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  14. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    dskira
    "..Thank you for understanding and backing the concept of the weight estimate at the beginning of anny project. It is so overlook it is umbelivable..."

    It simply amazes me, the amount of people that come on this site saying, ooooooo, i have a great idea what about X or Y, and so the debate ensues with endless computer plots and colour graphics to sound all important. Fine, whatever floats your boat!!

    All it does, is just show that they are not professional designers/naval architects and do not wish to turn their idea into reality, they just wish to, well....you can fill in the blanks!. Because the first thing one must do, is the weight estimate. Nothing and I mean nothing will work without a weight estimate and a realistic one too. Lots of built in margins...the weight of a boat never gets lighter...it always get heavier!

    Which is why Richard needs to make sure his boat has a proper weight estimate done now, before proceeding down any further to the other "what if" scenarios or detailing.

    (Thanks for the kind comments. Not everyone agrees with your opinion of me...you are in a minority!)
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    No, he´s not. The majority has not the balls to agree, thats it.
     
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