Ocean News

Solutions thread ? - The third industrial revolution, (the solar electric age) ?

 

Looking at the temperature change shown in the second chart and noting how it has spiked in the last few hundred years:

• What direction did temperatures seem to be headed for the last 8,000 years?
• Why has there been a sudden change in direction?
• And what natural causes do you suppose are contributing to the current temperature spike we're in?

PS
I'd really prefer that you would look up for me those scientific articles on natural causes for global warming. Call me lazy. Call me an ignoramus. suggests i
Call you an ambulance? Okay. You are an ambulance!
Your chart enhanced a bit.


I cherry picked the time period.



more time period cherry picking is necessary because your argument humans have during recent century and bit more caused a huge spike in temperature ain't so, when viewed closely.

Guess it all depends on what you consider NORMAL temperatures. To compare with.



So the "new" hottest place on Earth is Greenland Ranch (Furnace Creek) in Death Valley, Calif., where it reached 134 F (56.7 C) on July 10, 1913. But even that distinction depends on what is being measured. Death Valley's record is for the highest air temperature. A higher surface temperature of 159.3 F (70.7 C) was recorded by a Landsat satellite in 2004 and 2005 in the Lut Desert in Iran.

Highest and lowest temperatures by continent
Continent Temperature Date Location
North America High: 134 F (56.7 C) July 10, 1913 Furnace Creek Ranch, Death Valley, Calif.
Low: -81.4 F (-63 C) Feb. 3, 1947 Snag, Yukon Territory, Canada
South America High: 120 F (48.9 C) Dec. 11, 1905 Rivadavia, Argentina
Low: -27 F (-32.8 C) June 1, 1907 Sarmiento, Argentina
Europe High: 118.4 F (48 C) July 10, 1977 Athens and Elefsina, Greece
Low: -72.6 F (-58.1 C) Dec. 31, 1978 Ust 'Schugor, Russia
Asia High: 129.2 F (54 C) June 21, 1942 Tirat Zevi, Israel
Low: -90 F (-67.8 C) 1) Feb. 5, 1892
2) Feb. 6, 1933 1) Verkhoyansk, Russia
2) Oymyakon, Russia
Africa High: 131 F (55 C) July 7, 1931 Kebili, Tunisia
Low: -11 F (-23.9 C) Feb. 11, 1935 Ifrane, Morocco
Australia High: 123 F (50.7 C) Jan. 2, 1960 Oodnadatta, South Australia
Low: -9.4 F (-23 C) July 21, 1983 Charlotte Pass, New South Wales
Antarctica High: 67.6 F (19.8 C) Jan. 30, 1982 Signy Research Station, Antarctica
Low: -129 F (-89.2 C) July 21, 1983 Vostok Station, Antarctica
Source: World Meteorological Organization
https://wmo.asu.edu/content/world-m...ation-global-weather-climate-extremes-archive

Amazing! None of these record air temperatures occurred more recently than 1983, and that in Antarctica!
What in the world has been going on for the recent thirty seven years of AGW alarmists rants and scares?

You are rapidly running out of time, alarmists. 2030 and a lengthy colder weather period coming.
Maybe you can figure out how to intervene with the North Atlantic gyre, so your warmist's theories don't go poof!

Since in the 70s ya'll claimed burning fossil fuels was creating a new ice age, before you switched to warming in the 80s, ya'll plan to go back to the 70's shtick causing cold again?

That's why you switched message from global warming to climate change, isn't it? You believe you can harness whatever happens to furthering your agenda.

How many sheep will you retain? However diminished, how ever few, it will still be a consensus. Right?

 

If you had bothered to read to the bottom of the WMO web page you cited you would have noticed that new high records have provisionally been set this year in both the Arctic and the Antarctic.

While the records kept by the WMO are "official" they're not beyond challenge. The Wikipedia article on highest temperatures gives some history behind the Furnace Creek record, and why some think it might be tainted by what are typically higher ground temperatures. That article also note how some other "high" records have recently been dis-allowed because of recording irregularities.

Certainly, high temperature records are interesting, but the real question is what the earth as a whole is doing, including the oceans. "Alarmingly," widespread average temperatures, both summer and winter, land and ocean, seem only to be going up.

 

"Alarmingly," widespread average temperatures, both summer and winter, land and ocean, seem only to be going up."
by an "alarming" tenth of a degree? and where is the confidence allowance? The plus or minus half a degree or something?

I agree the oceans have been slowly warming ever since the "Little Ice Age" and in recent decades has been increasingly transferring that heat to the air, which warms the land more.

The North Atlantic gyre is predicted to slow and do less warming of North America and Europe about 2030.
Colder temperatures and escallating CO2 from burning lots of heating fuels not making it a least bit warner.

Unlike the timid climate scientists predicting 2100 conditions after they are safely dead, I have every expectation of living beyond 2030 and observing first hand my prediction coming true!

Ocean_Warming https://iceagenow.com/Mini_Ice_Age.htm
"But when Bryden’s team measured north-south heat flow last year, using a set of
instruments strung across the Atlantic from the Canary Islands to the Bahamas ,
they found that the division of the waters appeared to have changed since previous
surveys in 1957, 1981 and 1992. From the amount of water in the subtropical
gyre and the flow southwards at depth, they calculate that the quantity of warm
water flowing north had fallen by around 30%....most of the slow-down happened
between 1992 and 1998.

Nobody is clear on what has gone wrong. Suggestions for blame include the
melting of sea ice or increased flow from Siberian rivers into the Arctic . Both
would load fresh water into the surface ocean, making it less dense and so
preventing it from sinking, which in turn would slow the flow of tropical water from
the south. And either could be triggered by man-made climate change. Some
climate models predict that global warming could lead to such a shutdown later this
century.

The last shutdown, which prompted a temperature drop of 5°C to 10°C in
western Europe, was probably at the end of the last ice age, 12,000 years ago.
There may also have been a slowing of Atlantic circulation during the Little Ice
Age, which lasted sporadically from 1300 to about 1850 and created
temperatures low enough to freeze the River Thames in London.

Do you suppose man-made climate changes prompted the shutdown of
12,000 years ago?) "


Chasing the North Atlantic Subpolar Gyre https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-40569041
"The North Atlantic Subpolar Gyre not only affects the climate of the North Atlantic and Europe, but also the rainfall in places such as the Sahel in Africa, the Amazon and parts of the US."

 

Samalas Eruption 1257 (Indonesia) → Great Famine of 1315—1317 (Europe) → Little Ice Age ± 1300 to ± 1850 ↓



↓ (Dutch) Kleine IJstijd = Little Ice Age



↓ a Little Ice Age winter pictured in ca. 1608, in what's now the Netherlands and Belgium, the painter took the artistic licence to put some different places together, I believe.

↑ Winter Landscape with Skaters ca.1608 by Hendrick Avercamp - (6,278 × 3,626 pixels)
↓ Detail, someone scoops water from a hole in the ice with a lever from a building which bears the then coat of arms of Antwerp - Province.

 

The ice cores show much higher temperatures for medieval warm period, than shown in reconstructed temperature chart, as do other proxies

and then there was the roman maximum a thousand years earlier. The beginning of that chart should show that

 

Medieval Warm Period - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/earth-and-planetary-sciences/medieval-warm-period
1.1.7 Medieval Warm Period (900–1300 AD)
The Medieval Warm Period (MWP) was a time of warm climate from about 900–1300 AD, when global temperatures were somewhat warmer than at present. Temperatures in the GISP2 ice core were about 2°F (1°C) warmer than modern temperatures (Fig. 8.14). The effects of the warm period were particularly evident in Europe, where grain crops flourished, alpine tree lines rose, many new cities arose, and the population more than doubled.



Wasn't just Europe was warm in medieval times

New Study Confirms Medieval Warm Period Was Indeed Global, And As Warm As Today https://notrickszone.com/2017/08/29/new-study-confirms-medieval-warm-period-was-indeed-global-and-as-warm-as-today/
The team found that the most rapid warming in China occurred over AD 1870–2000, at a rate of 0.56 ± 0.42°C (100 yr)−1; however, temperatures recorded in the 20th century may not be unprecedented in the last 2000 years, as reconstruction showed records for the period from 981 to 1100, and again from 1201 to 1270, were comparable to those of the present warm period, but with an uncertainty of ±0.28°C to ±0.42°C at the 95% confidence interval. Since 1000 CE—the period covering the Medieval Climate Anomaly, Little Ice Age, and the present warm period—temperature variations over China have typically been in phase with those of the Northern Hemisphere as a whole.

 

I could find no referential links to scientific studies in your link, even though it claims to be reporting a "new study"?

However, no one is contending that temperatures have not changed in the past. What is being asserted is that the current rate of change is unprecedented in the last 10,000(?) years, and that there is no known natural event causing the current spike in temperatures.

 

Not exactly sure what your point is in providing all those links? As I said to Yob, Nolo contendere that there have been past temperature changes, and that they have had natural causes.

The present question is what is causing the current spike in temperatures? I'm still waiting for you to provide scientific evidence for a natural cause.

 

Scientific citation, please.

 

Yes, the North Atlantic is one of the few places on earth that has been cooling, not warming, in the last century. Even the IPCC agrees with you! So much for "timid climate scientists." <laugh>

Temperature change map: This global map shows calculated surface temperature changes for 1901-2012. Estimated temperature decreases appear in shades of blue, and estimated increases appear in shades of orange and purple. Areas with insufficient data are white. Image from IPCC Fifth Assessment Report.
​

SOTC: Introduction: Are Global Temperatures Rising?

 

It Could Be Decades Before Emissions Cuts Slow Global Warming, Scientists Warn

Slashing greenhouse gas emissions would probably not yield visible results until mid-century, researchers have said, cautioning that humanity must manage its expectations in the fight against global warming.

Even under optimistic scenarios in which carbon pollution falls sharply, climate change will continue for decades, as reported in the journal Nature Communications.

 

current rate of change is unprecedented in the last 10,000(?) years, and that there is no known natural event causing the current spike in temperatures.

BS

but it's what you believe and preach.

Still BS

If you believe the yaya "Climate Scientists" at NASA
World of Change: Global Temperatures https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/world-of-change/decadaltemp.php
Earth has increased by a little more than 1° Celsius (2° Fahrenheit) since 1880. Two-thirds of the warming has occurred since 1975, at a rate of roughly 0.15-0.20°C per decade.

Nothing alarming, agressive, or a massive spike about 15/100s or 2/10s of a degree a decade.

Hyperbole is BS

and slowing recent decades

Did Global Warming Slow Down in the 2000s, or Not? https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/did-global-warming-slow-down-in-the-2000s-or-not/

The blowback against the NOAA study has been some time coming. Tom Karl, lead author of the NOAA study and director of NOAA’s National Centers for Environmental Information, and his colleagues compared warming over the past 15 years with the long-term temperature trend between 1950 and 1998 (a 48-year stretch).

But scientists say Karl’s comparison of a 15-year stretch with a 48-year stretch was somewhat arbitrary. It is meant to answer the question, has global warming stopped in the long run? The answer to that is a resounding “no,” they say.

Scientists are more interested in explaining fluctuations in global temperatures over 10- and 20-year stretches. Throughout Earth’s history, global temperatures have risen and fallen in step with natural fluctuations in the climate system that scientists are only just beginning to unravel.

Karl said that understanding this decadeslong variability is important, and his study had dealt with the long-term trend.

“There is no disagreement that there is decadal variability, and that it is real and needs to be better understood,” he said, referring to natural causes of warming.


Exactly How Much Has the Earth Warmed? And Does It Matter? https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenergy/2018/09/07/exactly-how-much-has-the-earth-warmed-and-does-it-matter/#411cfec45c22

"Although there are some out-of-the-mainstream views to the contrary, there is strong evidence the Earth has warmed about 1° C since pre-industrial times. Uncertainties in the data and lack of agreement on a reference date make it impossible to give a precise value."

"the 57% of Americans who do not worry much about global warming are not likely to be influenced by a conclusion that pre-industrial temperatures are two tenths of a degree cooler than earlier thought."

 

That cold spot just below Greenland is just where and why it would be expected to be I think. The unprecedented heat of the Arctic regions melting the Arctic sea ice and both the Greenland and Iceland glacial icecaps, the cold water runoff has nowhere to go but exactly there, funneled right to that spot by the ocean currents.



An image comes to mind of a car pulled to the side of the road in the middle of a scorching hot desert. The driver heard a noise and pulled over, not sure what is going on but rejoicing that the AC still works, not realizing yet the fan belt has broken. That's Yob, he's just rolled down the window to tell everyone everything's fine and dandy.

"Yobarnacle said: ↑
.....The North Atlantic gyre is predicted to slow and do less warming of North America and Europe about 2030.
Colder temperatures and escallating CO2 from burning lots of heating fuels not making it a least bit warner.

Unlike the timid climate scientists predicting 2100 conditions after they are safely dead, I have every expectation of living beyond 2030 and observing first hand my prediction coming true!"

 

"Yobarnacle said: ↑
.....The North Atlantic gyre is predicted to slow and do less warming of North America and Europe about 2030.
Colder temperatures and escallating CO2 from burning lots of heating fuels not making it a least bit warner."

This doesn't even rise to the standard of doublespeak wherein meanings are reversed, it actually contradicts itself.

'