Ocean cruising boats and modern hanging keels

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by J Smythe, Jul 30, 2019.

  1. J Smythe
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    Location: USA

    J Smythe Junior Member

    Is anyone out there in the design community trying to "modernize" the old school full keel design to garner a couple more knots out of a boat, or is the hanging keel here to stay? As a racer, I can understand going for the hanging or canting keels due to performance, but as an ocean going cruiser, I don't want my keel attachment to be dependent on bolts alone due to so much garbage in the ocean you can run into these days. Whales, shipping containers, abandoned yachts, etc..

    Anybody know of anyone with some kind of integrated keel design that's not based on 1980's intel?
     
  2. jehardiman
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: Port Orchard, Washington, USA

    jehardiman Senior Member

    The selection of a keels has more to do with the intended purpose of the vessel than with fashion. You have a full keel to protect the vessel, you have a bulb ballasted blade to maximize speed or cheat rules. FWIW, there is no ""modernize" the old school full keel design to garner a couple more knots"...keels are integral to the design and selection of the hull.
     
  3. J Smythe
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    Location: USA

    J Smythe Junior Member

    I don't agree with that at all. Most full keel boats weren't designed to "protect the boat", as you claim, but were made that way because "that's the way we always did it.....". Those boats were based on rule of thumb design and scantlings data, not modern naval architecture and hydrodynamics data.

    Given what we know today, there is no reason that a cruising boat can't have some kind of modernized full keel system integrated into the frame itself that 1.) Reduces the wetted area compared to old design 2.) Reduces drag through modernized keel shape design. There's a couple knots in there just waiting to be had.
     
  4. jehardiman
    Joined: Aug 2004
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    Location: Port Orchard, Washington, USA

    jehardiman Senior Member

    "that's the way we always did it....." in the days before radio, depth sounders, LORAN, Multi-beam side scan digital charts and GPS real-time positioning when grounding was common and holing the vessel or losing the rudder was fatal to the crew. Notice where the local craft developed/have full keels and where they do not.
    That you have a different opinion than me is fine, go to it, looks like you've got yourself a fine goal. But don't be suprised if you run into the girth to power issue.
     
  5. JosephT
    Joined: Jun 2009
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    Location: Roaring Forties

    JosephT Senior Member

    Here you go. Robert Perry recently led this project. Carbon hull. Full keel. Dubbed the "Bulletproof 43". It may not be as fast as a winged keel hull, but it's the best of both worlds. It would be nice to see more nautical architects & boatyards offer boats like this. With the rash of offshore fin keel failures a full keel is a very strong selling point! If customers demand such a hull and can accept a bit less speed, then they can become a reality. Gorgeous boat!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Ref: Bulletproof 43 http://sailingmagazine.net/article-1691-bulletproof-43.html
     
  6. J Smythe
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    Location: USA

    J Smythe Junior Member

    Ask and ye shall etc...

    THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. There's still room for improvement over the design to reduce both weight and drag while maintaining the safety and integrity of an integrated hull shape.

    Thanks for the post!
     
  7. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Chuck Paine has also developed further the long keel concept, although not perhaps as radically as Bob Perry's Bulletproof 43 above.

    Both his 30' Mark II version of Annie -
    ANNIE 2 – A 30′ Offshore Voyager – Chuck Paine Yacht Design LLC https://www.chuckpaine.com/boats/annie-2-30-offshore-voyager/

    And the 36' Expannie have hulls with tight turns of the bilge amidships, cutaway keels forward, and a large propeller aperture allowing for the transom hung rudders to be semi-balanced.
    36′ Offshore Voyager EXPANNIE – Chuck Paine Yacht Design LLC https://www.chuckpaine.com/boats/36-offshore-voyager-expannie/
     

  8. J Smythe
    Joined: Jul 2019
    Posts: 20
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    Location: USA

    J Smythe Junior Member

    I like that 36 footer of his, but do not share his desire to limit electrons.

    I hold the opinion that future sailors are going to place a premium on power generation that doesn't exist today, which is one of the reasons I've decided to try and incorporate some solar / mechanical energy generations capabilities into any given design. Heaven forbid somebody can't charge up an iphone or something, right?
     
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