Ocean crossing with motor-yacht

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by phatzih, Jul 7, 2005.

  1. woodboat
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    woodboat Senior Member

    Here, here
    Preach it brother Par
     
  2. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    Has he read enough? Is he certified to drive a motor vessel by the appropriate Coast Has he a VHF radio and an EPIRB? If so, then he's set, but he'll certainly need that EPIRB...
     
  3. phatzih
    Joined: Jul 2005
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    phatzih Junior Member

    Dear PAR,
    I am sorry but I do not recall ever suggesting that I am an experienced sail man. On the contrary I believe I have made obvious that I have no idea about basic stuff and I am actually trying to get a clue of what exactly the product I am looking to buy can do. If it was not obvious for you then…YES, I am “a boating magazine reader” and moreover a new “boating magazine reader”.

    As about the way I am making my money I do not think such discussion serves nothing more than you getting enjoyment from being offensive. In the same way I can assure you that my employment demands twice the years of education that you probably have. I will not make any other comments for your post. It was probably about “a fool and his . . .” and not me. That is my last post on this forum. I am thankful to those of you who helped me with my queries.
     
  4. AggieBoater
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    AggieBoater Junior Member

    See someone who actually wanted help has been turned off by some *** feeling the need to be nasty. I would hope that some of you who treated this person badly thinks about it next time. And if not, well it'll all come around in the end. Karma.
     
  5. woodboat
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    woodboat Senior Member

    phatzih never did "get it" but insisted to the bitter end that style was more important than safety. Aggieboater, how would you suggest getting through to such a person that one's saftey is far more important than style when cruising into Ibiza? I believe that most here if not all were trying to shake a dose of reality into phatzih for their own good. No one wants to see them dead in the med. I would much rather turn than off but stop and think before they buy rather than strap on a pair of kid gloves so that I don't hurt their feelings then hear about them in the news.
     
  6. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    Karma for sure. But he really never did "get it." It's too bad, really, both that he never got it (insisted style over safety) and that he stopped posting.
     
  7. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    The intent in my first few posts was to politely inform the poster, his need for a sound vessel. He didn't get it. Others started the insults, though I did offer an occasional barb with well blunted points as a reality check.

    My first post had no offending remarks and was matter of fact in regard to your requirements and desires. You didn't get it, even after other posters (some not nearly as kind) made similar points. My second post was to drive the nail home. You did seem to pick up on the fuel requirements I mentioned, but seemed focused on a long rant about hair, BMW's, style, bubbles and nothing to do about craft intended for offshore duty. Not in any of your posts have you mentioned you abilities other then being young (I made my first Atlantic crossing while a teenager, so age shouldn't be an issue) My post just before this one was clearly trying to get some kind of response in regard to your abilities. It appears I was correct on all accounts, you don't have money (yet) you don't know what you want nor what to look for, though you do have desire, mostly relating to how pretty you'll be sailing off to Davie Jones' cabinet shop.

    Nowhere did I ask how you get your money (frankly, I could care less) Nor do I care about your education, though again, frankly, I went to the University of Delaware for chemical engineering, then onto the University of Maryland for mechanical engineering, I have a 100 ton Masters ticket, have crossed the Atlantic four times (once solo) ran my own charter in the Caribbean for a few years and generally suspect my education far exceeds yours and discussing experience would be silly at this point in your life.

    If my posts drove you off then, you clearly need to go over the entire thread again (especially my first offering). If this is all it takes to do so, then my assumptions were correct, you'll never get to the med, let alone the Miami boat in time for the swim suit contest. Like I said, some of us do and others wish they could. You are in the wishing stage. Now is the time to get out there, get some experience, some sea time and understanding. You're young, able and willing, the best traits a person can have for the desires you long for. No magazine will help, unless you're looking for crew positions (a good idea, so take the hint) get on with it. Many skippers will hire only a young and good looking crew to man their craft on a cruise (I did the same in my charter) and it makes economic sense to work your boat this way and to learn skills from your vantage point. This is exactly how many get started (I did) they get a ride on a cool boat (mine wasn't, but things got better) and learn a bunch of things that pay off in spades later on in life. So, instead of complaining about the little slapping that's gone on here, get slapped around for real, like in a 30' boat running through 20' seas. You'll quickly learn about the *** whipping the sea can hand you and likely be very glad your vessel was designed for offshore duty.
     
  8. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    See! PAR is right! Lucky PAR: "I made my first Atlantic crossing while a teenager, so age shouldn't be an issue." PAR knows what he's talking about and the new poster was a bit oversensitive.
     
  9. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    "Phatzih never did "get it" but insisted to the bitter end that style was more important than safety." I can just imagine...his stylish boat's sinking, he's drowning in an Armani suit and some Nordhavn picks him up. He jumps off, screaming that he'd rather die than be caught on an ugly boat (by the way, nordhavns are beautiful!)
     
  10. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    marshmat Senior Member

    PAR, some advice.
    BE NICE.
    The discussion is not about how important it is to have ocean-storm experience before going boathunting, it is about what the safe limits of a 30' sport cruiser are. Berating Phatzih for his taste in boats is not productive. Nobody ever said he was unwilling to learn the skills or obtain the equipment; why else would he be asking on this forum as to what he should consider? And he has stated already that he intends to learn how to captain his yacht, and to get several years of experience before trying longer trips. Let's be a little more considerate, now, shall we?
     
  11. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    "it is about what the safe limits of a 30' sport cruiser are." Certainly true, but Phatzih's goals for the 30' cruiser were far too great.
     
  12. pfennig
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    pfennig Junior Member

    Don't let Nordhavn prices turn you off

    First a couple of disclaimers:

    De gustibus non est disputandum - if I could have my choice between a Nordhavn's styling or a Lazzara's styling on an equally safe/capable boat, I'd definitely go for the Lazzara's. However, I don't think I'd go for any boat with that type of styling because, as pointed out previously, no such boats are really as capable as a real passagemaker. Which brings me to my big caveat:

    I don't actually own a boat, I don't actually know how to handle a boat, it'll be a long time before I achieve either. I'm a landlubber for now.


    But even if you're not willing to go with a used boat, don't be put off by the Nordhavn (and Krogen et al) prices. Those are top notch boats but very pricey.

    If I had $250,000 US for a new boat (a bit over your price range admittedly, but work with me here), I'd be looking at the new Diesel Duck 382 that Seahorse Marine (http://http://www.seahorseyachts.com) is starting to produce. It looks very capable of crossing the Atlantic safely, and even circumnavigating.

    I think they are gorgeous:
    [​IMG]
    This is a wood 38 rather than the steel Seahorse built version, but those are nice too. Here's a Seahorse 44' Diesel Duck:
    [​IMG]

    I highly reccomend checking out http://www.dieselducks.com and http://www.georgebuehler.com for more information on these boats. You can even build one yourself if you have the time/space/inclination: http://www.dieselducks.com/Wood-constructionphotos.html

    So if you want a proven passagemaker without shelling out for a Nordhavn, don't despair!


    Alternately you could try this: http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/r/designs/gilbert/wilbur/index.htm

    LOL :D
     
  13. mackid068
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    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    Gorgeous boats, those Ducks. But by the way, the thread is sort of done with.
     
  14. yacht371
    Joined: Aug 2005
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    yacht371 Yacht Designer

    Small but Seaworthy

    An interesting aspect of Ocean Crossing in a small powerboat is speed. These days excellent 5 day weather forecasts are available. What if you could go fast enough to keep each "chunk" of the trip to 5 days or less. It is possible. Gibraltar to the Azores, about 1200 Nautical miles. Azores to St. John's Newfoundland, about the same. On either end just coast hopping.

    1200 miles at an average 15 knots would be less than 5 days, so you could pick your weather.

    But, most small fast power boats are so fuel hungry, this would require about 4000 liters (1000 gallons) of fuel, an awful lot for a small boat to carry, and this amount of weight might well prevent the boat from reaching 15 knots, at least until a good part of it was burned up.

    I am planning exactly this voyage for next year in a new MC27 motorcat, which I co-designed. This boat, fitted with a single Volvo D3 diesel outdrive, is extraordinarily fuel efficient, and will do 15 knots on less than 2 gallons(8 liters) per hour. This means a 1200 mile voyage needs only 140 gallons. We will carry 250 for a large safety margin.

    This boat is not a dedicated ocean cruiser like a Nordhavn, but because of the short duration of each leg, we (crew of 3) can survive on simple food and no showers. Because of design of the boat, with foam flotation and multiple compartments it is very difficult to sink.

    Such a small boat could be capsized by an exceptionally large wave (my computer analysis says 20 Meters, over 60 ft.!) but is actually quite safe in absolute terms. Of course we will have modern satellite communication and radar/gps.

    In my opinion the biggest risk is engine failure, since we will have only one. This is part of the reason for the fuel efficiency, since one engine is more efficient than 2.

    Comfort is another issue. Because of the low speed of a Nordhavn, you are much more likely to be caught in a storm. But that heavy ballasted keel and incredible displacement do give a slow easy motion. While the motorcat has a very smooth ride for a small boat, it is very light and will have a "lively" motion in a rough sea. But I think we can stand it for 5 days at a time.

    Would I recommend this to someone with no ocean experience? Absolutely NOT!

    [​IMG]
     

  15. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    will do 15 knots on less than 2 gallons(8 liters) per hour.

    The photo shows outboards thatwill only put out 10 hp per galon of fuel.

    Your going 15K on 20HP?

    Thats better than a 13 ft Boston Whaler .

    Is the milage figure computer generated? GI =GO.

    Yours would be the most efficent vessel in the world by a factor of 3 or so!!!

    FAST FRED
     
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