Ocean crossing with motor-yacht

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by phatzih, Jul 7, 2005.

  1. KCook
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 171
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 13
    Location: Arizona

    KCook Senior Member

    I think that's the whole point. Huge difference between 30mi off Miami and mid-Atlantic :rolleyes:
     
  2. mackid068
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 857
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: CT, USA

    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    Definately true. So, for 30mi off Miami or out of your port in Long Island Sound (still in sound), you're fine with a Bayliner or the like, but when you're in the middle of the Atlantic, that wacko with the Bayliner will sink and the people in the nordhavn will be sipping drinks and puttering through the storm.
     
  3. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 3,486
    Likes: 95, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 1148
    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    maybe a 60 ft bayliner may go 40 mi of miami but its not build for the rough stuff.
    round 2000 bayliner improved a lot on their smaller cruisers but as it says its a bay - liner.
    ocean going passage makers dont neccesarily have to be ugly.
    beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
     
  4. KCook
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 171
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 13
    Location: Arizona

    KCook Senior Member

  5. mackid068
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 857
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: CT, USA

    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    The largest Bayliner is a 32 or so foot boat. Well, that boat is safe, but only due to size...too many windows presents a hazard in rough seas... Nordhavns are SO not ugly, nor are American Tugs. They are classic, not "21st century nostalgia" (or so the "rocketships" will be called 20 yrs from now).
     
  6. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 19,133
    Likes: 471, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 3967
    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Do you know why they build so many types and styles of those injection molded plastic harbor toys, compared to the real offshore capable craft? There are a lot more people that don't go off shore then do, they're cheaper, are a lot easier to sell and boneheads with unfaithful wives love them.

    You've never been offshore, Phatzih. At least not in a small craft (under 60 feet LOD) in anything but the finest of weather and the calmest of seas. You can only have you *** handed to you once. Most of us learn well before that time comes, though there's always the guy that thinks he can sail in only "nice weather" these are the ones where the USCG has to find the body floating among the wreckage.

    Phatzih, take a thousand or two of that 100 grand, burning a whole in your common sense and rent a 35' pretty thing and a tank of fuel. Point it right out into the deep blue and drive for a third of it's fuel supply and spend the night. Use your skills and pick the best weather you can, watch some TV, skinny dip, have fun, then bring her back in the next evening (sometimes you don't have much choice and night rides are necessary) You'll likely get lucky and not have any real issues to contend with, but you'll have an idea of how poorly built those things are, especially when you can watch the deck buckle or hull sides flex while under way in deep water (which always builds my confidence in a vessel, how about you)

    I'm battening down for another hurricane here (didn't we just have some a few months ago) I know how to keep my thumb firmly implanted, you don't even get it, let alone why I suggested using a third of your fuel.

    You need experience and you'll not get it running off about things, concepts and realities you don't understand. The idea that you "shouldn't have any trouble cruising the Med" is just the mind set that will get you killed or worse, drowning someone who trusted you to have a clue and keep them safe. If I pulled across your bow and gave 2 long blasts with the horn, what would you do?
     
  7. phatzih
    Joined: Jul 2005
    Posts: 11
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: UK

    phatzih Junior Member

    You people keep repeating the same things….let me make a summary of the points already made….
    1) Chaparral style boats can not cross oceans
    2) Nordhavn style boats can
    3) Coming from the above point, Nordhavn style boats are also safer in less demanding situations
    4) Nordhavn boats are ugly
    5) If you go to a hair stylist and not a barber shop you are not a man (according to woodboat)
    The only important question not answered yet is the following…
    So, what is the range of a boat like chaparral signature 270 (http://www.chaparralboats.com/sig270.asp) ? You people seem to support that those boats are useless…probably because you are so upset to support the quality of fishingboats.

    Kelly I think that the boat you are suggesting is 100 feet or more thus obviously can cross an ocean…..but for its class it is not a stylish one…(let me refer again to the Lazzara yachts for style tutorials http://www.lazzarayachts.com )

    About the depreciation issue…I believe that what will depreciate more is a Nordhavn style boat…and this is because is the last generation of this kind of boats still in existence…in a couple of years or a bit more you will definitely see Nordhavn style manufacturers shifting production to more stylish ships…I am not saying that they will start building Lazzara yachts but they will definitely put a lot of effort to make more stylish boats….as time passes new young designers will join the company-they will get senior positions-ideas will go through the boars etc…
    You can find similar examples in all kind of companies and manufacturers even of the most traditional products…even the VW Beetle and Mini Cooper cars are coming again in production with a lot of style added….and when Nordhavn announces the 2009 model which is an elegant aluminium ship, then your 2008 model will sell for peanuts…
    On the other hand the trend on the trendy boats is more normalised…for the last 20 years they keep adding curves on the design…

    I think you people are still in the time where men care if wives are faithful….personally I don’t give a ****…and none of the people I know really cares about such things…
    :idea: You might not noticed by the world had change since the 70’s
     
  8. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
    Posts: 4,127
    Likes: 146, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2043
    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    The Chaparral 270 you mention is a family overnighter. With a 380 L tank and twin 270s it is not capable of ocean travel, although it would be a fun lake/river boat. Not to mention that being built for weekends on quiet bays and coastal waterways, it will not take well to any kind of substantial weather. If I were piloting the 270 I would not take it much beyond sight of shore when in the ocean. (Figure out your fuel mileage and range, then figure on 1/3 of your range as your cruising radius- 1/3 of a tank out, 1/3 home, and 1/3 for contingencies- which of course only happen if you DON'T allow the extra fuel to deal with them, right?) Chaparral's build quality is said to be relatively good for the class, meaning it will last several years longer than many similar boats in the conditions for which it is designed (short, good-weather coastal and river/lake cruises). Its lifespan in the open ocean will be measured in hours.

    The reason so many people suggest hefty passagemakers like Nordhaven, Krogen, etc. is because these boats are designed and built to cross oceans, day in day out, for decades on end. Everyone has his own opinion on the styling (personally I like them) but ships are not cars, and a solidly built passagemaker will not become outdated. Indeed, the current hulls are already CFDed and test-tanked to within an inch of their designers' lives, and improvements are so difficult to make that the same hull designs will probably still be being built in 20 years time.

    As for the styling arguments. To each his own, of course. Personally I like the seaworthy look of the trawler-passagemaker types, and also the elegant lines of yachts like Palmer Johnson (Kelly's link in #34). Lazzara looks like they're copying mid-'90s Azimut, which itself makes some rather tacky-looking yachts. What is important is that the boat is solid and seaworthy. And that has little to do with style; if you're after a real offshore boat, poke your head around engine mounts, stringer junctions, hull-deck joints, pilothouse windows, fuel tanks, pumps, through-hulls, etc.
     
  9. mackid068
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 857
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: CT, USA

    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    If you go to a hair stylist and not a barber shop you are not a man (according to woodboat)

    By the way, this is not true. Many men go to hair stylists and are very masculine. Anyway....

    Be an intelligent person. Get a proper vessel. You are silly to think that people who get "ugly" boats are stupid. Rather, those who get a Chapparal or a Sea Ray or a Bayliner for offshore use are moronic. It's quite terrible. If those ****** would stop buying boats unsuitable for their purposes, then maybe we wouldn't need to worry so much about the Coast Guard doing its job...
     
  10. woodboat
    Joined: Nov 2003
    Posts: 312
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 14
    Location: Baltimore MD, USA

    woodboat Senior Member

    Hold it. I never said "not a man" I said a girly man. I have friends that are "girly men" Mister GQ, checking the mirror more often then his woman. Wears colgne, goes to a hair stlylist, thinks fashion is important, watches the stlye network, thinks women like this crap. If that describes you and it bothers you I am sorry. I have a flat top and care that I am dressed appropriatly for the occasion whether that be a suit or jeans. I used to worry about stlye. What I found is that style changes very often. Like we all know what is stlylish today is out quickly. My example was shag carpet. Now stlye can be used a bit more in a car. Really it just needs to do a few things well. So compare say a corvette to an acura NSX. They both are reliable means of transportation that are equally stlylish. If that vehicle breaks down on the highway, no big deal. If a storm is coming you can make it home in time. What is a problem: in a boat a failed engine can set you adrift. You can't outrun every storm. In protected waters this is still manageable. Don't think for a second that 100 ft means anything. Some of those 100fters will snap like twigs in a real storm. Buying a boat is more like buying a house. Build quality should be your number one concern. Second is functionality. What good would a large family room be if the door openings are too small to bring in any furniture. I spend weekends, extended weekends and even weeks on my boat. I don't want to be crammed on a small back deck or crawl under the deck for a half height aft cabin. Even if your needs are purely party then you need a large open salon. Finally if you can make this all attractive great. One thing you repeat but not me.
    I think the bubble boats are ugly. I think properly designed boats are attractive. I can't understand what people see in them. Just like I never understood polyester suits in the disco era, even though it was before my time as I am not that old. That is what I equate this bubble stlye to, the disco era.
     
  11. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 3,486
    Likes: 95, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 1148
    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

    [​IMG]
    who said this was ugly looking?
    [​IMG]
    but i'm with KCook i personaly would prefer something like this if only that island was in better perspective :D

    btw, many rough stuff boats have overhanging dragy bridgeroofs. is this a matter of looks and style or what is it good for?
     
  12. AggieBoater
    Joined: Nov 2004
    Posts: 18
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Kemah, TX

    AggieBoater Junior Member

    Ok, now for some constructive criticisim:

    1st, I agree with you in that I'm not a fan of the tugs or the trawlers. I appreicate them and work on a number of Grand Banks and the like and they are amazingly built boats. I'd go offshore or make passages in them anyday.
    2nd, I do like the looks of the SeaRay Sundancers and the Chap's and the like.

    But here is where I'm going to have to start siding with the other side. I've owned several boats. I currently own 4 and will be applying for my USCG Captians liscense next year. I've crewed on many, many boats of all types. Here's what I've learned: Displacement and construction is where most production power boats fall short. They are made so that a larger percentage of people can afford them. Prior to fiberglass, pleasure yachts were only for the welthy, even the small ones. Fiberglass has made ways for the general middle class to be able to afford them.

    My good friend owns a brand spanking new Sundance 26. Very spacious for a 26' boat, and lots of comfort features. The second week he owned it we decided to take it out in the bay after work. It was already dark and we were just messing around. We decided it was to chopy and decided to head in. Just before we hit the channel the engine died, and we had to throw anchor to prevent being blown ashore. There was only 2-3 foot chop in the bay, with about 10' of water under us, and we could bairly move about the boat without being thrown to the floor. All of a sudden his plush new boat wasn't so nice. The thing is so light that it was tossed about with every wave. I trust the boat, and it was an easy fix for the problem that killed the motor, but I've heard scarry stories about the Med and freak storms that come up there.

    My advice is save for a few years more and get a larger 35-40'er. Even maybe one that is a few years older to get the most lenght possible. Beam and weight for a larger boat is great for safty. Look at the windows and hatches, make sure that they are well made. Most are 1/4" plexiglass, and will be broken by a good wave if the boat doesn't go turtle.

    They are also right about depreication. It isn't so much due to style as much as build quality, or lack there off. Usually a typical production will need a complete re-fit after 10-15 years of service. A heavly used boat will need it sooner. Marine parts are very costly and therefore the ones used in production boats are of lesser quality to make the boat affordable. You could have a Chap upgraded by a custom shop and have it go anywhere these other boats will, but it isn't a package boat. It would then be a custom. I believe this is what the others may have been thinking although they worded it very poorly.

    Good planning is very benifical. I'm sorry for the other people that have gotten into a pissing match about styles and tastes. I would hope this forum had better sence than that, but old people get pissy some times.

    Also look at maintance. You'll need to be changing the oil every 100hrs of running. Ever seen the engine room on a 28' boat with twin i/o's? It isn't very roomy after all that engine, and basic maintance isn't as easy.

    I would like to see this forum be a little more informative and stop throwing opinions and criticism at someone who's trying to learn. If anyone has personal experience please give reasons not opionions. Teach, don't tear down.
     
  13. mackid068
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 857
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: CT, USA

    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    Yup, that's for sure. Teaching is much better than tearing down. Still, I'm a Nordhavn/trawler kind of boat fan. I really just feel that Chaps and their ilk are not really suited for passagemaking. That's just me.
     
  14. AggieBoater
    Joined: Nov 2004
    Posts: 18
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Kemah, TX

    AggieBoater Junior Member

    Well I'm sure that we've established that he realizes that he can't cross the ocean. I'm not fimilar with, and don't feel like taking the time to study the Med to see if it would be like an ocean crossing, but this is something he will have to reasearch less he should have to be saved by the coasties when he has a problem.
     

  15. mackid068
    Joined: Feb 2005
    Posts: 857
    Likes: 0, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: CT, USA

    mackid068 Semi-Newbie Posts Often

    Needing saving is no fun. Get a proper boat. Trawler is the only way to go.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.