ocean conditions are changing due to Rapid Global Climate Shift

Climate shift is occurring, Climate scientist aren't debating it, instead there studying it. What I want to know is how I can still enjoy my retirement in the light of a changing world. How it effects when and where I cruse, are the seasons of opportunity for cruising growing or shrinking, are more boats being lost and is there an increase in rescues per capita successful or not being reported. How does climate shift effect my plans is the larger question. The question of if climate shift will effect my plans is kinda obvious. Its here and its now, the data is clear and its well founded in the science, so the real question is how does the changing oceans effect me personally in my bid to get a retirement yacht underneath my *** before its all over. I'll continue to refer efforts to debate climate shift to the climate thread, this one is primarily concerning how it effects the retiree

 

To me, the suggestion that humans are not changing the planet is beyond speculative, it flies in the face of what we see all around us.

Much of the forests are gone, the rain forests are rapidly disappearing, many species have become extinct over a mere hundred years or so, a period of time that is a mere tick compared with the epochs over which such things might normally happen. The Great Lakes of America are polluted, gyres of garbage can be found in the middle of oceans, and diverse habitats have been replaced by single species cultured land over the most suitable areas. How can anyone think there is anything at all on the face of the earth that is not being changed, other than maybe the Himalayas and things of that magnitude, and Heaven help those if we discover valuable ores under them.

With all that evidence around us, it is a monumental act of self-delusion to claim and believe that the changes we are seeing, and the rate at which they are occuring, are normal and natural events. Of course the adherents of the Gaia theory claim that the planet is merely shrugging off a nasty infection, namely us. Could be right, at that - who could blame it?

But I think we humans are a truly unique species, one that defiles its own den. Nature makes mistakes I guess ...

As for your question, Boston, it's still a fairly slow-moving set of changes in the lifetime of a single human; my advice is - don't leave it too late, make sure you can sail to any part of the world that is enjoying good weather, and be prepared for pirates when you get there.

 

Okay, okay, I'm in.

What's the plan?

-Tom

 

ah the plan
If your asking about a design for world salvation I'm afraid the key ingredient for any solution ( cooperation ) is sadly lacking. If your asking for my personal plan for world domination it begins with learning to make my own fuels. Well underway. Convert the truck and test out those fuels. Under way. Build the dink and work out those techniques needed in the retirement build. Plan chosen and collecting bits and pieces now. Working on renting a space as we speak. As for the actual retirement build itself the choices are endless and the issues to be considered huge. I'm still working on that one.

Thats about as far ahead as my personal plan needs to be at this time but all in all what to do about climate shift is more a mater of what it does to us than what we're going to do about it. That all important element of cooperation is the rope that hangs us all if you ask me. Or more accurately our children. I'm thinking I should have time to enjoy the PNW before it all goes to hell in a hand bag.

 

There are no humans on Mars, yet the climate warmed there in step with the warming here. Therefore it must be due to solar activity. Mars ice caps will be back very soon. So will ours and dudat dudat dudat's all folks!

 

Boston- damn how do you keep all this rattling around in your brain and still walk?

I had remembered reading several papers and researching the state of the science on the Venus issue when playing this game on the last thread.

Right- a well understood mechanism but I would have to go back to the work to go so far as offering a formal rebuttal to point made by the laplanders here... and to define the existing science in any sort of in-depth way.

So........ I offer a question to help me understand how we are referencing the required state of knowledge on this topic.

Do we have to do the "no reference- it didn't happen rule"?

Perhaps skip it- the science is not the point on this thread Boston???
My answer- if conditions are worsening we just spend more time at the pub telling lies..

 

Look! it's taxable ,that's all that really matters

 

about half the planets are warming and about half the planets are cooling, slightly and for a variety of reasons ( you forget one of my buddies is a planetary physicist working for NASA ) One reason that isn't a factor is changing total solar irradiance. The sun has been nice and stable in its output for quite some time and will for a few million more years. Yes there is a sunspot cycle and no it isn't at its peak right now. There are several excellent data pools showing the output of the sun has not altered in anything even remotely resembling lock step with Rapid Global Climate Shift.

That whole argument is straight out of the disinformation hand book

where's the correlation

the sun is actually in the depths of a solar minimum right about now, ( 100 year low ) so the idea that we are warming because of "increased" solar activity is simply absurd

Bntii
while I'm hoping we can progress beyond the denial and address the changing conditions of our oceans and climate, ( after all shouldn't we maintain a safe level of preparedness synonymous with a more severe climate paradigm ) it might be occasionally necessary to correct a few misconceptions about that climate paradigm. For the most part any detailed analysis that might be needed to answer questions about Rapid Global Climate Shift have been addressed over on the climate thread and I'm thinking its a great reference tool that should enable us to move forward over on this thread without getting bogged down in some pedestrian denial of our situation. Cats argument that there isn't a control group is founded in the dictates of his area of science, many scientific fields of study don't get the luxury of such absolutes and yet there work is progressing within the boundaries of the scientific method available to them. I think Cat is just trying to trip me up and see what falls out of my pockets so to speak.

Some of the problems associated with that changing paradigm might be faster moving storms, higher waves, longer events more lightning and as things progress could also include noxious gas releases from a aerobically stratified deep ocean. At some point breathing apparatus might even be required. See Dr Jeremy Jacksons lecture "a brave new ocean". Boats more able to get out of the way of these kinds of storms and earlier warning will likely be needed to ensure a safe passage or weekend on the water in the future.

given what we know is happening to our climate and the ocean environment its just irresponsible to not take into account the harsher conditions in any plan for an extended stay at sea.

 

Oh, I'm sure we'll get to Mars soon enough and screw it up too.

-Tom

 

In historical times extended sunspot minima have coincided with mini ice ages, at least in Europe. Makes me wonder what is preventing one of those now, and what is going to happen if we hit a maximum ...

 

I did some internet checks on the issue with the Golf Stream stopping (calling it "research" is too presumtious).

At a conference, a scientist reported measurement data showing that the Golf Stream had stopped for a short while. This was reported by the respected British newspaper The Guardian and from there made the headlines in the Swedish newspaper Expressen. Expressen is not a trustworthy source, but I get it for free at the airport when I'm travelling. I accepted the information and tucked it away. The "news" was corrected the next day in the same paper, but I wasn't travelling that day.

The intention the scientist had when presenting the data showing the Golf Stream had stopped was to initiate a discussion on what the reason could be. To him, and probably to all other scientists at the conference, it was obviously impossible that the Golf Stream would just switch off. The reason for the data had to be something else. Unintentionally he fooled The Guardian, Expressen and me. I'm embarrassed. It seems that the reason was that the path of the Golf Stream isn't perfectly stable.

Now back to the question if global warming can stop the Golf Stream. The high salinity of the North Atlantic is critical for the Golf Stream flowing as it does. A theory is that the inflow of more fresh water from the north (which would be an undisputed effect of global warming) will decrease salinity in critical places. There are however other effects that work to increase salinity, and monitoring of the salinity has not shown a decreased salinity. The knowledge we have today is that global warming will not stop or re-route the Golf Stream. Other possible consequences of a global warming are bad enough, and global warming shouldn't be blamed or credited for everything unusual that happens.

Erik

 

Take everyone's freedom and have them report to "The Chairman" for orders.

Boston hopes to be "The Chairman". They all do.

 

I would have thought you understood my absolute revulsion for govt is all its evil forms. I am most certainly not advocating govt is a solution on the contrary it has been a major driving force behind the problem.

The gulf stream is being monitored very closely
it may not have stopped but it sure has there full attention
Shoshiro Minobe et al. Nature 452, no. 7184, 13 MARCH 2008.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v452/n7184/full/nature06690.html
and from 2005
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article520013.ece

and my old alma madre Woods Hole has a lot of great stuff on this one
http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12455
and a link to a great article http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=12455&tid=282&cid=2557

In a nut shell the current seems to be doing some odd ball things and they are keeping a very close eye on it. It didn't stop and I'm glad I investigated that one a bit further before going off the deep end but the idea that it "could" stop is well founded, it "has" stopped in the past and our influences on the climate could produce the scenario in which it "might" stop in the future.

The real question is if the currents of the oceans are beginning to be effected by changes in climate then when are the monitoring systems going to be upgraded so they get faster at passing that information along to the folks who need it most. As it is it takes months for the data to be released and longer still before its available in a form everyone can understand.

 

That explains a lot, coming from you, Toody.

 

So, when will you be moving to Florida? You can row through the no wake zones with the diminishing manatees.