ocean conditions are changing due to Rapid Global Climate Shift

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by Boston, Jan 10, 2011.

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  1. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member


    Lets see the "Energy Information Agency"? By the sound of that quote it is the propaganda wing of the the Administration. the numbers do not even match what the other government departments that are actually responsible for keeping track of them. The silly statement above reveals them to be globalists/socialists who somehow think the "European life style" is come kind of utopia. Most of their unemployment numbers of twice as high as ours and many are even worse debt spenders than the US. This reflects the current Obama Administration political position as somehow the Europeans are models to emulate. Yes, just like you, we have socialists here too, many in responsible positions of authority, like in the white house.

    We are not Europeans, our economy can never work the way most of Europe does. We earn our own money and we can spend it as we please, if many choose to buy big cars and trucks and put fuel in them, with their own money, so what? we earn it, we buy it and we can use if we want. I choose not to, I drive a 28 year old Toyota that consumes very little fuel, but I do not begrudge those that drive around in large and heavy cars. And neither should you.
     
  2. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    I've edited this post on GNP / energy use per capita to include Spain. A quick glance suggests that Spain is using its energy very efficiently -- US not so well.
     
  3. Number4

    Number4 Previous Member

    That's interesting. I always associate the French with nice cheese, pretty girls and giant multi hulls.
    It appears that this affliction is in fact a global phenomenon.
     
  4. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Now you are catching on. Our gov't feeds us bogus info on a regular basis.
     
  5. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    NBC News | Climate change shaking up forest management, federal report says
     
  6. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Florida Sun News | Densely populated cities linked to climate change, research finds
     
  7. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    ABC News (AU) | Climate change threatens food security
     
  8. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    Farm subsidies from the government threaten food security.
     
  9. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    "(again, the higher the number the better)"

    Seems a incomplete analysis- "better"- what does that mean?

    Fairly complex subject for such simple terms.
    I would want to see the entire subject parsed out as to climate factors where populations exist in any given country, population density, nature of distribution network, nature of production (the energy density of the primary production in any given country), resource base (are materials processed in situ or imported as billet for production), import/export ratios for various goods, etc etc etc

    It takes less energy per thousand dollars of production to cut down a tree in Brazil & ship it to China than China expends turning those trees into paper and shipping it back.....

    Is Brazil "better" it terms of efficiency of energy use?
    Would they be "worse" if they shifted towards paper production and thus lowered their GNP/GJoule numbers while saving us all two boat trips out of the process of making typing paper???
     
  10. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Of course you are correct. I was responding with FACTS to Petros' incorrect statement in which he said that "divide energy consumption by total gross national produce, we consume less energy than any other country."

     
  11. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    Thanks Imagine- I just have half an ear to the tracks here and might be missing the thrust of the arguments....

    [​IMG]


    I suppose one could define the average energy expended in the top twenty means of production.
    With this information countries could be compared on how efficient they are in each sector.
    The analysis would still have to factor the 'whys' of this variation but a understanding of a scorecard base for comparison could be reached with some effort.

    I find it of interest that Italy and Spain have such high numbers in the above.
    Why? Are the primary means of production in these countries of low energy use or are they more efficient?

    A rough start here:

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2012.html

    A single factor:

    Producers:
    http://www.world-aluminium.org/statistics/#linegraph

    And efficiency:
    http://www.world-aluminium.org/statistics/primary-aluminium-smelting-energy-intensity/#linegraph
    (select for 'process energy-DC)

    I didn't read all of it, but this paper appears to be addressing this approach:
    http://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication/tracking_emissions.pdf
     
  12. Alex.A
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    Alex.A Senior Member

    This thread will still be going around in circles, when fuel has run out......
    Unless it becomes the next America bashing thread - and then it may go another couple of pages, before it gets locked.... And the next one starts.
    It's sad that we live in a world where facts are not facts. Statistics are made to suit an agenda. Research to fit an agenda or for profit, rather than for information.
    Reality is purely objective. I see what I want to see.
    You see what you want to see.
    I will find the "facts" and "figures" and "statistics" to prove my reality is more "real" than yours.......
     
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  13. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    You'd know. Your government is a past master of farm subsidies and restrictive tariffs.

    PDW
     
  14. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Up until the days of Earl Butz, Secretary of Agriculture under President Nixon, farm subsidies were used to smooth out the bumps in production and prices from year to year. For example, when prices were low, the government lent the farmers enough to bring the prices received for their crops up to a predetermined level, rather than just gifting them the difference. When prices were high, the farmers paid back the loans. It wasn't a perfect system, but it worked and kept the farmers going during bad times.

    Under Butz, and ever since, subsidies have been free to the farmers, and used instead to encourage overproduction and consolidation of family farms into industrial farming -- so-called 'agribusiness.'

    In fact, one of Butz's favorite sayings was, 'go big or get out.'
     

  15. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    As malleable as facts and statistics are, they are still much more helpful than the opinions, misstatements, and diatribe that some on this thread seem so fond of.
     
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