Nylon Weave?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Leon01323, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    Ah thats some great info thanks. So if they are using that system thats not really something i could do in my workshop at home. Most hi tec piece of kit i own is a vacuum pump.

    So in basic terms its still standard matting but they have use almost liquid plastic as the resin then put it in layers in a mould and then in a oven under pressure? or am i way off?

    Thanks again
     
  2. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Leon,

    Not quite right. no liquid resin.

    The thermoplastic plastic used as resin is stiff and boardy. Go pick up any piece of Nylon for example. The "resin" is formed in thin sheets, like paper.
    Stack first resin, then glass, then resin, etc, until you have as many sheets of glass as you want in the finished product.
    Cover with a vacuum bag, pull the vacuum, heat to higher than the melting point for a little while, turn off the heat and let it cool.

    If you made the laminate flat, then you would reheat it to form it in the shape you want - like the front and back kick to the boards. Thermo plastics can be reheated multiple times without damaging the properties. Or you could have formed to that shape when you first compacted and formed the shape. That seems to be what the board maker does, because they talk about forming a large sheet, then waterjet cutting each individual board out.

    Just FYI the thermoplastic my company has developed has a major componenet of PEEK. The injection molder heats it to ~700 degrees before it is forced in the mold. So when you try to make your own laminate you will need an oven that gets somewhere around that temp. The different plastics vary considerably, so if you pick a different resin you might be lots lower. The real trick is to be able to get the resin to push thru the glass cloth and "wet out" all the fiber to make it strong. You probably need an Autoclave which puts 80 - 100PSI pressure on the laminate while it is melted. Sorry I know nothing about those tricks.
     
  3. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    These are also called "thermoplastic prepregs". A manufacturer is Ten Cate in the Netherlands. the stuff can be processed at high temperature, some 230-250 degrees C.

    There is one other solution, which is to infuse Caprolactam into a fabric, and polymerise that into nylon.
     
  4. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    Ah that makes alot more sense to me now. So would need to find an oven which would fit one of these boards in to really make it all work.

    As for an autoclave thats not something i have access to. Ive found a company in the UK which provides thes prepregs in rolls and have sent them an email to see if they can give me some more info.

    Caprolactam is the bass of nylon isn't it. That sounds even more technical Herman :)

    Thanks again
     
  5. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    You would need at least an oven capable of the neccesary temperature, bagging materials that survive the heat and molten nylon, and a suitable mould.

    Or use press-moulding with alu or steel moulds, which make the process easier, but the moulds costly.

    Infusing with Caprolactam is a(expensive) poor mans solution, but the problems associated with it are high, mostly in terms of availability of suitable materials, then getting things to work with these materials.
     
  6. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    At the moment the moulds i use are 4mm sheet steel that is has been bend and rolled to form the curve of the board.

    ive seen the industrial moulds that press and heat the piece up all at the same time. They are amazing. But not something im going to get haha. i doubt im going to be able to do the caprolactam route. probably more than likely not going to be able to do the first process anyway haha.

    got to make a few calls to some people i know with ovens and see if i can use them when they run other pieces through them.

    Thanks for the ongoing advice :)
     
  7. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    Heating steel is not complicated. You can source some Mica elements and stick them to the steel. Something like www.ref.nl
     
  8. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    Ok so try not to laugh to much when i say this idea. I also own a clothing company that prints T shirts and what not. We have heat presses that go up to 300 degrees i think that look like this:

    [​IMG]

    it is just one big heat pad, if i was to replace that heat pad with the metal top part of my mould and the bottom pad with the bottom part of my mould lay up inbetween clamp down the mould and heat it up to 300 degrees or what not then in theory it may work?

    I know you guys work in big workshops with the proper equipment but im thinking basic test if it works here?

    haha what do you reckon
     
  9. Herman
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    Herman Senior Member

    I guess that could work. How you heat the mould is not important.

    Get 2 scrap pieces of metal sheet, apply release agent (suitable for the stuff) and make some test panels.
     
  10. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    First I need to find a supplier for the prepreg stuff and whether or not I can get plain sheets of it or of they come with weave impregnated already.

    Thanks again
     
  11. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Remember that you will need at least vacuum pressure, if not higher than that.
     
  12. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    I was thinking that the pressure from clamping down in the press and maybe a couple of clamps on the metal mould plus the heat from
    It would press it down. I basically don't have a clue and just thinking off the top of my head. :)

    Thanks
     
  13. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Ask you prepreg supplier what the consolidation pressure should be.
     
  14. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    Roger that. When I find a supplier I shall get all the info :). When being the main word:).

    Thanks
     

  15. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Just remember that Nylon is not the only possible resin.
     
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