Nylon Weave?

Discussion in 'Materials' started by Leon01323, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Leon01323
    Joined: Dec 2010
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    Hey guys sorry not been on for ages, been busy busy.

    Still trying to make various mad projects and figuring things out.

    I was shown a mountain board the other day that is very strong and is made out of Nylon?

    [​IMG]

    ive searched for nylon weave on google but only found various clothing materials or people using it as peal ply?

    does it go by a different name? can anyone shed any light on this for me?

    Thanks
     
  2. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    Nylon by itself is only good in blocks, not in sheets like that (low tensile stregth and it will crack). There is a product called Zytel, which is fiberglass reinforced nylon, which makes it have much higher tensile strength. That might be what that board is made from, try looking that up.
     
  3. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    These decks are between 10 ply thick to 17 depending on weight and are very flexible but yet stiff. Not one has ever been broken yet and they have been selling them for around 5 years.

    not had any luck looking for Zytel or fibreglass reinforced nylon. when i search they come up with knife handles almost like plastic products

    Thanks
     
  4. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    This is a good question.

    I know a guy with a nylon rudder from an autopilot and the thing had incredible properties.

    It had a shaft going maybe 4 inches into the 2 1/2 foot rudder blade. That's it. Nothing else. The rudder was nylon and there was no other structure.

    He came by my shop to find out how to make a rudder and when I showed him, he was a little disappointed. He thought it was a lot easier after he had looked at the nylon one.
     
  5. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    That rudder sounds crazy,

    Im looking high and low but not come up with anything yet. Ive held one of these decks and they are fairly thick and heavy but my god are they strong. there is no core in them they are just solid nylon.

    all ive found was on this site:

    http://sweetcomposites.com/Polyester.html


    Nylon Fabric

    This light-weight nylon fabric is typically used as a peel ply. Style 28325 is a 40x40, 210 denier, 2 oz plain weave. We now have 64" width nylon peel ply. This is a peel-ply fabric for laminating – not a sewing fabric!!

    that surgests that it is used as a peel ply:mad:

    haha proving hard to find

    Thanks for helping
     
  6. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    The Zytel is not particularly light, but it is tough. It has been around over 30 years, it can be injection molded for mass production.

    I have used nylon sheet stock for a few projects and it eventually fatigued and cracked, though nylon is one of the toughest plastics, in cast form it needs reinforcement.

    Nylon fabric is another issue, I do not think anyone uses it in a composite because it stretches and would crack any resin, and it absorbs water and changes size when it does (why knots in nylon ropes fall out when they get wet, and why polyester is usually used in lines, rigging and sails on a boat).

    That picture just looks like carbon composite board, or perhaps fiberglass made to look like carbon fiber. Happens a lot in consumer products like skis and auto trim parts, they color it to look like carbon and simply call it "composite".
     
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  7. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

  8. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    For clarity, I should mention the rudder was probably zytel. It was solid, not a laminate.
     
  9. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    Having seen these boards up close i can tell you its not carbon fibre as the weave looks very course and not smooth. If it is fibre glass weave like uni or biax it is a very course heavy weave. looking at it, each weave looks about 5mm for each strand. Below is their weight chart which says how many plys and how heavy the deck is.. Is there any way of working it out from that?

    Deck length: 888 mm / 34.96 in
    Deck width: 228 mm / 8.98 in

    Rider's weight Suggested deck Deck Weight Flex
    44 - 57 kg (7 - 9 stone) 12 Ply 35° Short Mountain 2,150 g flexi
    51 - 64 kg (8 - 10 stone) 13 Ply 35° Short Mountain 2,325 g firm
    57 - 76 kg (9 - 12 stone) 14 Ply 35° short Mountain 2,550 g stiff
    76 - 108 kg (12 - 17 stone) 15 Ply 35° short Mountain 2,675 g very stiff

    They are pretty heavy decks. Litrally just trying to find out what they are made from, on person said it was kevlar and i said it would be so expensive and does not look like kevlar and the other day one guy said they were nylon, hence the asking.

    Thanks again for the help
     
  10. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    So i worked it out at each layer being 178 grams , is that around glass weight i.e weave and epoxy weight, Anyone Know?
     
  11. AVMan
    Joined: Sep 2004
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    AVMan Junior Member

    Reinforced Thermoplastic

    Most likely, the board is made out of continuous fiber reinforced thermoplastic tapes or sheets (here is a link to PMC/Baycomp who makes these types of materials: http://www.performancematerials.com/products/materials)

    Reinforcement fiber is generally glass (although carbon and aramid are used as well) and the uni tapes/sheets are consolidated in a heated press. I've seen several skateboard manufacturers use this process for high volume parts.
     
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  12. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    Thanks AVman had a long look at that site looks interesting stuff but not managed to find too much info on it all on their site.

    stuff looks really good but dont think its is what they use. if each one of thes layers is like 1mm then the bored would be thinner than the one ive seen.

    you can also see the weave in these boards and from what i saw on that site you could not see the weave.

    Im thinking ill have a play around with expoxy and some weave see what i come up with.

    i know epoxy is much stronger than polyester but is it a lighter resin as well?.

    Thanks
     
  13. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    epoxy and polyester resin would weigh about the same, but since epoxy is so much stronger (and a lot more fatigue resistant), you use much less so the assembly is much lighter. Polyester also tends to change shape over a long time, not really a good thing for a boat.
     
  14. Leon01323
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    Leon01323 Junior Member

    Thanks for the reply. I've been reading
    Up on epoxys strength and how much better it is in terms of strength and breaking force. I've also seen that I can get 1.2kg is £40 where polyester I can get 20kg for £70 haha.

    Am I right in thinking because epoxy has a lower viscosity it requires less to wet out the weave ?

    Thanks
     

  15. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    The Trampa Board Ltd web site said "The TRAMPA™ deck is made from a re-enforced glass and plastic thermo composite, which was originally developed for light-weight military applications"

    A thermoplastic can be melted into any fabric which does not also melt - glass, graphite, kevlar etc. Since the resin is thermoplastic it is rigid or board like before you laminate it. You have to take the whole laminate back up to the melt temperature to get the "board" to be fused together, then you just let it cool down in the mold. Some thermoplastics can be "heat treated" for better properties.

    Polyethelene, polypropolene, PEI (polyetherimid), PEEK (poly ether ether keytone), nylon and probably another 10 to 100 different materials can be used as resins this way.

    I once called up a guy making reed valves for go carts (2 strokes) and asked what material and he said "that's the secret, isn't it?" and declined to tell me.

    This might be nylon or not. With the right material I would believe the toughness claims the company made completely.

    Injection molded (chopped fiber) materials are a completely different (cheaper) and much lower strength and stiffeness materials- Zytel is just one of a hundred. My company just invented yet another - but it has the same problems as all injection molded materials.
     
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